mattcour Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 25 minutes ago, Tony T said: How much exactly did you pay for your Jetmads polyurethane resin Viggen? Tony Apples with pears... Jetmads Viggen was $192 during preorders. Resin kits are produced one by one, with lots of craftsmanship involved. Considering the limited number produced, the production technique, the size of the aircraft and the fact that there is no other alternative in that scale, $192 for such a kit is quite reasonable... if one Tamiya F-4 is around $135 on ebay. Not to mention that there are some resin kits such as those of HpH are sold at $500-600. However, the idea of injection moulding is supposed to drop the costs dramatically by producing tens of thousands. The objection is not for the price, but price of a kit produced with injection moulding. I would be most willing to pay $400-500 for a resin 1:32 SR-71 Blackbird or B-58 Hustler, if such kits ever come. But $300 for a plastic kit with some alternatives is too much. I sure see the point about aftermarkets already bringing it to that the level. But then of course there will be buyers and it is everyone's own money to worry about after all. There are $1m Bentleys and $10k Chevies. They are not the same thing for sure but all have four wheels and take you from A to B, with a 65mph speed limit. All depends on what you are happy to spend your money for. JMcD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
305 swag Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 9 hours ago, Jennings Heilig said: That’s a Revell kit 100% for sure. If that’s their idea of a $300 kit they’ve got a rude awakening coming. I sure hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Mike Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Hopefully, a group such as P/P would have planned such an extensive project around the existing kits, and what NOT to do. Wnw held back their Fokker DVII kit for quite some time to get it right. It would strain credibility that a group dedicated to the Phantom would do less. mattcour, LSP_K2 and JMcD 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony T Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 1 hour ago, mattcour said: Apples with pears... Jetmads Viggen was $192 during preorders. Resin kits are produced one by one, with lots of craftsmanship involved. Considering the limited number produced, the production technique, the size of the aircraft and the fact that there is no other alternative in that scale, $192 for such a kit is quite reasonable... if one Tamiya F-4 is around $135 on ebay. Not to mention that there are some resin kits such as those of HpH are sold at $500-600. However, the idea of injection moulding is supposed to drop the costs dramatically by producing tens of thousands. The objection is not for the price, but price of a kit produced with injection moulding. I would be most willing to pay $400-500 for a resin 1:32 SR-71 Blackbird or B-58 Hustler, if such kits ever come. But $300 for a plastic kit with some alternatives is too much. I sure see the point about aftermarkets already bringing it to that the level. But then of course there will be buyers and it is everyone's own money to worry about after all. There are $1m Bentleys and $10k Chevies. They are not the same thing for sure but all have four wheels and take you from A to B, with a 65mph speed limit. All depends on what you are happy to spend your money for. I'm not interested in polyurethane resin kits as I intensely dislike the dust and necessary adhesives, so would gladly pay comparable three-figure prices for an equivalent injection moulded styrene plastic model kit. Given the complexity of design and tooling, I'm not expecting to see thousands of the Sprue Bros F-4 models bagged up for sale like clothes pegs at Poundstretcher. And the design looks to be considerably more complex than the quarter-century old Tamiya (the Revell Phantom's shape being a bit of a joke to an F-4 aficionado, albeit the kits are useful for c/l drop tanks, the recce nose and fwd belly, and decals). If the new F-4 series is as good as it looks in the video, it'll still sell well even at £200-250 a box. Though I am expecting the metal LG, and possibly Quinta-style instrument panels thrown in and not sold as extras — i.e. an OOB experience. And if the venture only goes as far as the F-4B it'll still make a lot of people happy. Tony Gene K and allthumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunwinglow Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 On 8/21/2021 at 12:12 PM, mattcour said: Apples with pears... ... However, the idea of injection moulding is supposed to drop the costs dramatically by producing tens of thousands. The objection is not for the price, but price of a kit produced with injection moulding.... You dramatically drop the price by SELLING tens of thousands. Important distinction..... Anthony in NZ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattcour Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 2 hours ago, wunwinglow said: You dramatically drop the price by SELLING tens of thousands. Important distinction..... Yes, correct. And wise businessmen do not invest considerably dear money into subjects they will not sell TENS OF THOUSANDS, too risky. People who are ready to pay any price tag for their favourite subject is not too many and relying on them is a misleading assumption, as some manufacturers like the Wingnut Wings and Kitty Hawk have learned the hard way. Even Tamiya and Trumpeter do not attempt it with their multimillion bucks capacity and investments. I wish it was the other way from a modelers perspective, but that is the fact because of which we have been doing wishlists full of subjects no manufacturer are ever giving a damn about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eoyguy Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 32 minutes ago, mattcour said: Yes, correct. And wise businessmen do not invest considerably dear money into subjects they will not sell TENS OF THOUSANDS, too risky. People who are ready to pay any price tag for their favourite subject is not too many and relying on them is a misleading assumption, as some manufacturers like the Wingnut Wings and Kitty Hawk have learned the hard way. Even Tamiya and Trumpeter do not attempt it with their multimillion bucks capacity and investments. I wish it was the other way from a modelers perspective, but that is the fact because of which we have been doing wishlists full of subjects no manufacturer are ever giving a damn about. Unfortunately its the way the hobby is going and will continue to go. With the shrinking base of aging modelers, the companies really have no better choice than to target high priced kits at a limited, but well funded, older modeling community. The days of selling thousands upon thousands of modestly price kits to the casual modeler is disappearing into the rear view mirror. Even giants like Tamiya have seen the writing on the wall I think, judging by the kits they do produce and some of the announcements they have made in past years. Even Trumpeter, with their (I assume)cheaper workforce and operation on a greater scale, have downshifted from their once continuous release schedule, or so it seems. Anyhow, I think the future only holds more of high dollar kits being made for the deeper pockets of the aged. Unfortunately I am more aged, but my pockets seem to be about the same depth. mattcour, Gene K, Royboy and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony T Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 Would love to buy just one really good quality £200-250 do-it-with-polystyrene-cement kit each year. With said purchase being an occasion — and perhaps linked to one, e.g. Michaelmas to cure the Autumnal blues. That would be plenty. So I wish this F-4 announcement had been made thirteen years ago. Probably would have bought eight, alongside the fantasy Hong Kong Models F-4K/FG.1 and Tan Models Su-33, F-111E and Buccaneer. So, let's hope this proceeds smoothly. And the bloke selling them doesn't plonk his water bottle on the decal sheets. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernut Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 Well, as far as shrinking modelers are concerned, there were almost 2100 entrants in the IPMS Nationals if my memory hasn’t totally left home. There were a bunch of junior/teen entrants but to be totally transparent, there were multiple entrants by individual modelers in several categories. LSP_K2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernut Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) Maybe they just wanted something to display, figuring that few would recognize the old Revell kit. The other options, while few, would be similar to what they had on display or an even more obvious Tamiya Phantom. Edited August 23, 2021 by Juggernut LSP_K2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eoyguy Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, Juggernut said: Maybe they just wanted something to display, figuring that few would recognize the old Revell kit. The other options, while few, would be similar to what they had on display or an even more obvious Tamiya Phantom. Well, there are only 2 large scale Phantoms on the market, Tamiya and Revell, and they are very different and if you have ever had one of either, you know them when you see them. Its really is baffling why they would put on display, a well known older kit, while announcing a line of Phantoms of their own creation. Regardless if the reboxed Revell kit is something different from that line all together, it still muddies the message as to what they are doing. Its just bad marketing. I'm not a hater of the Revell kits, and if they were doing something along the lines of the Encore kits that Squadron did, with existing plastic being enhanced with additional, included aftermarket, I would be all for it. But a Revell kit with just new decals, with their logo on the box, is....not that. John1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Williams Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 Was there any signage or anything else at their table at the Nats that indicated they were coming out with a new series of F-4s next year? Was there anything on, or next to, the box top showing the RF-4C indicating that this is the first kit of a new line? Looking at the photos of the table shown over at HS, I don’t see anything indicating a new line of kits. You’d think that if this really was related to the upcoming new kits, it would be clearly be promoted as such, but I don’t see that in the photos I’ve seen. You’d think they would really be pushing their announcement at a major modeling event like the US Nats. Also, the RF-4C kit box says Limited Edition, which seems inconsistent with the first release of a brand new line of kits. I think all of the speculation about this having anything to do with the announced new kits is wrong. But ultimately, the only thing that’s going to matter is the kit that actually gets released, not what was sitting on a vendor table at a model show months before. Not much value in getting worked up right now IMHO. LSP_K2, Mark P, Derek B and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.T Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 On 8/18/2021 at 11:44 PM, Lee White said: Let's see, B,C,D,E,F,G,EJ, slatted E, N,S, RF-4C, RF-4E. That's 12. Oops, forgot the Navy J. That's 13. You missed the RF-4B If this is done properly it opens avenues for Sprue Brothers / Phantom Phreaks to do an F-16 series, new F-14 and so on... But seeing is believing. I hope it takes off LSP_K2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcel111 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 Well... maye this is an incredibly elaborate ploy to get us the world’s first accurate 1/32 F-15 style external tank... courtesy of the F-4G. I’m hoping it is... Tony T 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amurray Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 On 8/18/2021 at 5:23 PM, Anthony in NZ said: That'll teach me for sinking the last 12 months of my life into a Brit Toom.... No thanks needed, I did it for you all.... "No good deed shall go unpunished!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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