Wolfpack Phantom - 8th TFW F-4C

[Dave Williams]

On 7/22/2021 at 12:17 PM, jmel said:

Agreed.  The panel should be dark with no lights during flight.

 I think I’ve figured it out.  I just got the F-4C set, and the annunciator panel is dark, like shown on the Red Fox page.  The set with some of the annunciators colored green and yellow is the F-4D cockpit set.

[MGySgt0372]

On 7/22/2021 at 10:16 AM, Dave Williams said:

Who’s set is that for the F-4B?

 

Unless Quinta was mistaken they told me last week (before I saw this thread) that they will be working on their set for the 1/48 Tamiya F-4B. I don’t think it’s been released & perhaps not even on the table yet if I read their reply correctly. 

 

Semper Fi,

Masterguns 

[John1]

I'm back...   Finally completed my P-47D so it's time to get serious about this build.  Before I show any progress, a warning - this build (I suppose like all of mine) will be a very slow project.    If things get too hairy, I've a KH Blackhawk with a ton of aftermarket stuff calling me to turn her into an OIF UH-60L.   Let's keep our fingers crossed that I can stay focused.

 

First off - the obligatory box shots.

The box:

Yep, the same one you guys have seen for the last decade or so.   Nothing special except it's pretty damned big! 

 

Shot #2 - the aftermarket stuff.   

It's a horrible picture.   So I'll detail what I've got so far are:

• Eduard F-4C/D exterior details.
• GT Resin Exhaust cans
• AIMS Martin Baker Mk 5 Ejection Seats
• GT Resin ALQ-71 ECM pod
• Fundekals Wolfpack Set

 

I'll go into details on all of these as I start to use them.  Sharp eyed readers may note the lack of any upgrades to the cockpit aside from the early version bang-seats.  That's because I'm still waiting for Quinta to get off their butts and release the F-4C cockpit set they've been promising for ages.   So far they have done the J and E.   Hopefully they get the C out before I start the cockpit.  Otherwise, I'll go with the Red Fox set.   The RF set is very nice but the Quinta ones appear to be just a bit sharper in details and they also provide the cockpit side wall details such as the prominent circuit breakers and also smaller other bits that RF did not.  

 

First order of business should have never have been required.   For some reason Tamiya must have used their B Team to research and design this kit.   They apparently used only a single Phantom as their reference and they one they chose was previously used for ground crews to practice battle damage repairs.  The fuselage is covered with raised patches that need to be removed.    Here is a very illustrative picture from another build that shows how bad it is.

 

It took me quite a while to sand and then rescribe/re-rivet all the surface detail that was lost.   A major pain in the ass.   I've hit the fuselage with some Flory wash just to check the work.   I've got multiple areas that need additional cleanups, so this is very much a work in process. 

 

Sorry guys, I didn't realize how horrid these pictures were until I saw them posted here.   I'll go back and take some detail shots when the lighting is a bit better. 

Anyway, that's gonna be it for tonight.   Next up will be correcting the intakes.  

 

Until then....

 

[Anthony in NZ]

Great start John!  Sorting that fuselage is in itself a big job and time consuming...well done buddy.  I shall follow with interest.

 

Oh I bet it cant be as slow as my one LOL 

[John1]

So, onto the intakes.    As been mentioned in pretty much every build posted here on LSP, the intake trunks don't come close to fitting properly.   No idea how T could have screwed this up.   So, your options are - add intake covers, drop $35 or so for aftermarket intake trunks or fix the problem.   Thanks to a bunch of good info posted here, I decided to take a shot at option 3.     

 

First off - cut out the intake trunks that are attached to the fuselage.  

 

Easy so far (except for the gouge that I put in my finger when the Xacto blade slipped).   The end result is that you will glue this part onto the kit's intake trunk assembly and then glue the entire assembly into the outer intake housing.  Here's a rough mockup of what it will look like. I've taped the cut-out fuselage intake to the top of the trunk assembly.  

 

Here's what it will look like when you are done.   At this stage, the intake assembly pretty much just snaps into place.   Only issue is that you have a very pronounced step between the inlet of the truck (as seen above) and the interior of the intake housing. 

 

This is where you have to do a bit of work.    I guess in theory you could simply putty the crap out of the step to fair it in but all that putty may not set up very well and could shrink later on.   Best option is to add thin strips of plastic card (I used .005" /.13mm Evergreen styrene).    Here is what it looks like.

 

I have to admit, this is some of the worst work I've ever done.   I think my Labrador Retriever could have done cleaner work.   But you know what?  Once you add some putty and sand it down, it's going to look fantastic.   Keep in mind - no one will ever see your work from this perspective.    When you look into the assembled intake from the front, even in this condition, it looks pretty decent. After the final touches, it should look fantastic. 

 

So that's where I'm currently at.   I've already applied the putty and after smoothing it in with my fingertip, it's looking good.   A quick sanding, some primer, and then the final coat.   

 

A note on colors - I'm struggling with the correct color for the intake trunks.   It's definitely not gloss white like you see in most models.  At this point, I'm going with flat white with some radome tan added.   I may use some grey pastels for the final touch.   Lastly, I need to add a band of the upper camouflage color to the front of the inlet.   I think there was some discussion on how thick this band was but I can't seem to find it.  If anyone has some info, please let me know.   I believe those early F-4C's had a lot of non-standard paintwork, including this area. 

 

Thanks for looking in! 

[easixpedro]

Looks like you're off to a stellar start! The intakes aren't as bad to fix as everyone makes it out to be--you're on the right track for sure. And 100% correct that based on what is actually visible, your corrections are perfect.

 

As for the intake colors, they tend to get nasty as the engines suck everything towards them. They're white, but not for long--usually end up stained really quick. Especially on the carrier as they're picking up steam and all the other junk on the flight deck. Same goes for the flight line with a bunch of jet exhaust etc. all being sucked up by the engines.

 

Looking forward to your next update!

-Peter

[John1]

Thanks Peter!

 

Making progress on the intakes.   Much sanding, followed by putty, followed by more sanding.  In the end, they came out "ok" and save me a decent amount of $, so it was worth it.  After completion, I painted the interior of the intakes a mix of flat white with a bit of Radome Tan and some grey.   Wanted to stay away from the shiny white look.   

I'm still not done, going to add some localized staining and see how some grey pastels look.   Speaking of painting the interiors, these early F-4's had a non-spec application of camouflage paint inside the intakes.  The standard called for the first three feet of the interior to be painted the matching camo color to what was on the outside.   However, these early jets only had approximately the first 6 inches or so painted.   On later jets, almost the entire vari-ramp was camouflaged.   Forgot to mention in my last update but on these ramps, the section aft is covered with indentations, representing rivets.   On the real thing, these rivets are nearly invisible, so I applied a skim coat of putty and sanding the surface smooth. 

 

Here's a nice example of the early intake paintwork.  Also note the bizarre looking external tank and its pylon.   Aside from that, this is actually one of better paint jobs on Wolfpack F-4C's during this time frame.  

 

Here are my vari-ramps, still need to add some weathering and put a wash on the hinge areas.  

 

Inside...

 

The intake with the ramp dry-fitted.  Still need to add the pitot tubes.

Hard to get a decent picture but it looks pretty good IMHO.

 

While I was at it, I painted the area of the fuselage that would be covered by the ramps.   It would be pretty hard to paint this area once the intakes are glued in place. 

 

That's it for now, thanks for checking in. 

[Madmax]

Great subject choice John - and you're certainly no slouch out of the starting blocks! Enjoying the research too...

 

Sean

[easixpedro]

Awesome!  Looks better than my resin intakes--love it when people get it done with the kit.  

 

If you're on FB, I highly suggest "Fighter Pilot Robin Olds" it's run by his daughter Christina and there's a lot of Ubon pics. Might be helpful for research.

-Peter

[John1]

1 hour ago, easixpedro said:

Awesome!  Looks better than my resin intakes--love it when people get it done with the kit.  

 

If you're on FB, I highly suggest "Fighter Pilot Robin Olds" it's run by his daughter Christina and there's a lot of Ubon pics. Might be helpful for research.

-Peter

Thanks so much for the FB tip.  Funny, I was just thinking about checking out FB for some groups that might have good 8th TFW / Vietnam Era pics.   FB (as much as generally it sucks) is a fantastic resource.  One other passion of mine is Army helicopters.    I'm on several private groups dedicated to Vietnam era pilots and also one for the 160th SOAR.   I've found some truly amazing pictures and info.  I'll head over there.

 

Before I do, a quick update - as mentioned, I was going to weather the intake interiors a bit (also added the pitot tubes that controlled the vari-ramps.   I'm a big fan of pastels, this took 2 minutes with some ground up dark grey.  Pitots were dark grey with a pencil run around the probe itself to give it a metallic sheen.  Still will add a small bit of chipping here and there but I think I'm calling these pretty much done.

 

 

 

 

[easixpedro]

57 minutes ago, John1 said:

Thanks so much for the FB tip.  Funny, I was just thinking about checking out FB for some groups that might have good 8th TFW / Vietnam Era pics.   FB (as much as generally it sucks) is a fantastic resource.  One other passion of mine is Army helicopters.    I'm on several private groups dedicated to Vietnam era pilots and also one for the 160th SOAR.   I've found some truly amazing pictures and info.  I'll head over there.

 

Yeah, I detest it, but at the same time, it's a tremendous resource. Over the years I've scrubbed my feed to be mostly history related things. "VietnamWarHistory.org" is another group on there--it's run by Dr. Erik Villard the CMH historian for Vietnam. He and the Admins run a tight-ship, so none of the politics etc. While a lot of ground stuff, it's a tremendous resource with (last time I checked) 35K plus members. 

-Peter

[IvanVasili]

Such a good job with the intakes!

[allthumbs]

Slick looking intakes…and weathered to perfection!

[John1]

Intakes are in place.   Took a fair amount of work. First off, with the modifications I made, the aft ends of the intakes are now too close to each other.  Simple fix, just need to cut off the locating tabs that are supposed to be screwed to the top of the fuselage.   Aside from that, I recommend supergluing the forward section first.  It takes a fair amount of pressure to get the variramps to glue down the fuselage and those "tabs".   Once the glue has dried, then run a bead of liquid cement to lock in the aft section of the intakes.  Here's the area I'm referring to that should be superglued (note the "tabs" with a bit of superglue spillage that I'll address down the road):

Note - the visible seam that runs parallel to the fuselage on the bottom and top of the ramps isn't an oversight - it's supposed to be there! 

 

Looks like I need to do a bit of putty / sanding work on the rear joint between intake and fuselage.   Very un-Tamiya like!

 

Lower view.  I'm quite happy with the way the intake interiors turned out.   Like the representation of grime quite a bit.  

 

So aside from the bodywork mentioned above, I think the intakes are now pretty much done.   More so than most kits, I'm dividing up this build into mini-projects to keep from getting overwhelmed.   I'm also stalling for time before I have to confront two areas that are far, far outside of my comfort zone - the burnt metal replication on the aft fuselage and painting a hard-edge scheme of this complexity.   

 

I might do a bit of work on the cockpit.  Can't get too far into it until Quinta finally gets around to releasing their F-4C cockpit set.    They have been talking about this since early this year but despite releasing interiors for the F-4E and J, still nothing for the good old Charlie model.  If push comes to shove, I'll go with the Red Fox set but from what I've seen of the Quinta Phantom releases, they seem to have a superior product.   I think I can still get some work done on the cockpit while I'm waiting.  More on this in a few...

[John1]

4 hours ago, Jennings Heilig said:

Looking good!  When that photo of '680 was taken she had received an almost complete repaint since Olds flew her in Operation Bolo.  Note she also now has the full APR-25 RHAW mod (radome and tail stinger).  Her belly is still factory white with full stencils though.

 

Keep up the good work!

 Thanks Jennings.   As I mentioned at the start of this build, I had zero interest in early F-4C operations until I saw your decal instructions and read up on these aircraft.   Truly a fascinating subject and since I love oddball paint jobs, it's right up my alley.   

 

The other thing I found out while reading about this subject was that the USAF went through a few distinct cycles in the air war.    In the early days, 65-67, the AF still had a strong cadre of WW2 and Korea vets who knew air combat maneuvering tactics inside and out.  Given the limits of their ROE, tactics and weapons, these pilots (and the junior crew they mentored) still racked up a very impressive kill ratio against the NVAF.  As the war progressed, these old hands left.   The incoming pilots had pretty much zero A2A training.   Most had no idea how to even fly the F-4 to it's limits (as an example, at high Angle of Attack, you needed to roll the F-4 with it's rudder - if you used ailerons, you would depart the jet and probably end up ejecting).  They were trained pretty much exclusively for the nuclear strike role.   With the vets gone and the VNAF increasing in skill, during 68-70, at times, the AF's kill ratio was close to 1:1!  From '71 to war's end, things improved.   The AF started to refocus on A2A combat and also issued improved equipment (gun-equipped F-4E, the "dogfight" AIM-7E, Combat Tree, etc).  Coupled with improved coordination with airborne surveillance aircraft, all of this allowed the AF to close out the war with a much-improved kill ratio.   

 

Anyway, sorry to ramble on. 

Edited December 8, 2021 by John1