Kitty Hawk models is going out of business

[BradG]

I think some of you are putting way too much importance on what we, the vocal minority have to say about any particular model. Say I produce a model, but it has some inaccuracies that get pointed out on a forum yet I still sell half a million units of that kit. Who cares what a few people on a forum have to say. For ever one of you out there, 50 exist who don't do the hyper accuracy thing.

[LSP_Mike]

Well, that is the crux of the situation.

If a boardroom team goes ahead with a faulty product, should they be surprised at negative comments? To my mind no, esp. when other releases in the same scale are markedly better. The "A"  "B" and "C" team analogy comes to mind.

    If a group goes ahead with a faulty product they ought not be so thin- skinned when flaws are pointed out.

[Tony T]

1 hour ago, Radub said:

 

Well...speaking as a model designer who worked with model companies from Asia, model manufacturers are constantly baffled by the fact that no matter what they do, it is "wrong" and "not the stuff we wanted". Other types of models in any other scales are met with pleasure and sometimes even joy. New models in scale 1/32 are constantly attacked. I do not know what it is that makes people (who are supposedly "into LSP") complain so much about new releases, but that kind of feedback filters back to the boardroom. There comes a point where a manufacturer decides that it is no longer worth their time, effort and expense. The first to abandon 1/32 were Trumpeter, who continue to be just as prolific in other scales and types of models. I know of one other manufacturer that decided to stop doing 1/32 and I was told by the boss of the company that the reason was the constant "bad feedback" about new releases. I was told that in 2019 and so far it seems that he was not exaggerating. We need to support manufacturers. You don't like what they do? Fine! Keep that to yourself, no one cares. Radu

 

That saddens me. As somebody who loves Cold War Jets I was really looking forwards to the possibility of a Trumpeter 1/32 Su-15 Flagon, F-106 Delta Dart etc., however remote. Ditto the Kitty Hawk Thunderstreak and Jaguar, with maybe a big Etendard or Mirage F.1. It all looked so hopeful five years ago.

I can live with many of the Trumpy and Kitty Hawk errors: the alternative is — well, there are no big scale alternatives! 

 

As far as my Cold War big scale Jet interests go only Italeri and Revell remain (I'm not interested in polyurethane resin kits), so I am shifting back towards smaller scales with the Airfix 1/72 Vulcan, 1/48 Revell SR-71 and Tamiya's Tomcats and Phantoms. 

 

If I get to hold a Hong Kong Models 1/32 FG.1/F-4K in my greedy paws in this or another life I will find contentment. 

 

Tony 

 

 

 

[Stokey Pete]

I got my Mirage eventually...

A Viggen, a Jag’, and an F-111 will see my shelves complete. 
1 of those 3 incoming from Jetmads (hopefully). 
Fingers crossed for more small manufacturers jumping in to bring us these kits. 

[Dave Roof]

28 minutes ago, BradG said:

I think some of you are putting way too much importance on what we, the vocal minority have to say about any particular model. Say I produce a model, but it has some inaccuracies that get pointed out on a forum yet I still sell half a million units of that kit. Who cares what a few people on a forum have to say. For ever one of you out there, 50 exist who don't do the hyper accuracy thing.

 

I agree that many of the 'accuracy' minded modelers that frequent the forums are probably less than 1% of the modeling community as a whole. A quick search of the various modelers on YouTube and Facebook prove that. However, I am referring to the instances when a company puts CAD work out there and/or solicits help from the community, then ignores the input given. I'll bring up Kittyhawk again. On more than one occasion, the very team they put together to provide SME input was subsequently ignored. How do you ask for help, ignore the help given, then be upset when the final product is criticized? 

 

Once again I'll refer to Kinetic doing things right. On their first couple releases of the F/A-18, the vertical tails were too flat on top. It was pointed out and they corrected them. The first few releases also had a couple small missing parts and the windscreen didn't fit properly. They listened and added the missing parts, as well as retooled the windscreen. Again, each kit they've released has been better than the previous kit because they listen to their customers and those of us that provide input on the subjects we know. It's about getting the basics right, not 100% accuracy down to the correct number of rivets on a bulkhead inside the wheel well. 

[John1]

On 6/4/2021 at 11:37 AM, firefly7 said:

I too just bought the MH-60S from Spruebrothers, specifically for the cannon. It's supposed to be in the kit, if it's not there when i receive it I'm sending it back to them.

I bought the same kit to convert into a UH-60L.   I have no use for the cannon.   If it's in mine and you get shorted, I'll gladly send it your way.

[VMA131Marine]

1 hour ago, BradG said:

Say I produce a model, but it has some inaccuracies that get pointed out on a forum yet I still sell half a million units of that kit.

Kitty Hawk is not selling anywhere close to a half million copies of any of their kits. Maybe divide that by 10, or 20. For comparison purposes, the March InfoEduard gives a figure of 120,000 copies sold of their 1/48 P-39 kit. That’s over 21 years of production in multiple boxings at a lower price point than most KH kits. I would be incredibly surprised if any of KH’s kits have sold 100,000 copies.

[firefly7]

That's a very generous offer John, it's greatly appreciated. Hopefully we'll get the cannon in the kit, I'll let you know as soon as it arrives. Thank you again,  Ruben.

Edited June 5, 2021 by firefly7

[VMA131Marine]

1 hour ago, Tony T said:

maybe a big Etendard

A 1/32 mainstream manufacturer injection molded Etendard? !!! That’s crazy talk. It would sell maybe a thousand copies at best. Probably less.

[Dave Williams]

2 hours ago, Dave Roof said:

 

I agree that many of the 'accuracy' minded modelers that frequent the forums are probably less than 1% of the modeling community as a whole. A quick search of the various modelers on YouTube and Facebook prove that. However, I am referring to the instances when a company puts CAD work out there and/or solicits help from the community, then ignores the input given. I'll bring up Kittyhawk again. On more than one occasion, the very team they put together to provide SME input was subsequently ignored. How do you ask for help, ignore the help given, then be upset when the final product is criticized? 

 

Once again I'll refer to Kinetic doing things right. On their first couple releases of the F/A-18, the vertical tails were too flat on top. It was pointed out and they corrected them. The first few releases also had a couple small missing parts and the windscreen didn't fit properly. They listened and added the missing parts, as well as retooled the windscreen. Again, each kit they've released has been better than the previous kit because they listen to their customers and those of us that provide input on the subjects we know. It's about getting the basics right, not 100% accuracy down to the correct number of rivets on a bulkhead inside the wheel well. 

It is disappointing when companies specifically ask for help, and then ignore it, but for the KH H-60 kits, I’m not sure that sales would have been any different if they had done them correctly.  That’s probably true for a lot of kits from a number of companies.

[thierry laurent]

I just realized that for the last two years I purchased more LSP kits from them than from any other company. It looks this was actually a good idea...

[quang]

2 hours ago, Dave Williams said:

It is disappointing when companies specifically ask for help, and then ignore it.

I don’t know about you all but I’ve always felt uneasy to see a commercial company ask for help from its customers in order to develop and manufacture a product and sell it back to the very same guys who helped them.
I find such method unethical and at the least un-professional.

Or else is it a smart commercial way to make the customer feel involved and think he had his say in the development of the final product while on the other hand the manufacturer keeps a whole different agenda?

 

In both case, we are just pawns in their game. And as such, the most we can do is to look at what’s laid on table and let our wallet do the thinking. 

Edited June 5, 2021 by quang
Typos

[Jack]

And in conclusion to what Quang said, i just ordered the HH-60H Resque Hawk and Mirage 2000C (because the 2000D/N had already gone the way of the dodo apparently)....

[D.B. Andrus]

Tech question re. P-39 kits:

 

Does the Kitty Hawk P-39 have the same fuselage length issue as does the Special Hobby kit?

 

Quoted length of actual a/c is 30' 2".  11.3125" in 1/32. Does that jive with the Kitty Hawk kit?

 

Thanks,

Damian

[LSP_Kevin]

28 minutes ago, D.B. Andrus said:

Tech question re. P-39 kits:

 

Does the Kitty Hawk P-39 have the same fuselage length issue as does the Special Hobby kit?

 

Thanks,

Damian

 

As far as I'm aware, they have roughly the same fuselage length. Personally, I'm not convinced there's an issue, but my eye for shapes is pretty poor, and my opinion is probably not to be relied upon!

 

Kev