1/24 Airfix F6F-5 Hellcat "Kicked Up A Notch": New eBook Now Available!

[CraigH]

On 1/25/2022 at 3:13 PM, chuck540z3 said:

Thanks everyone!

 

As for the "exploded parts" diagrams, spartacus2000 was kind enough to send me a bunch already which is certainly better than nothing, but there's nothing better than a pic of the real deal to get a better idea of where everything goes and the various colors.  For instance in the pic above, where is that gizmo on the bottom where all the oil lines go into?  On the firewall likely, and where exactly?  And where do those oil lines at the front plug into?  It's all still a mystery without real pics.

 

Cheers,

Chuck

Hi Chuck I've spent hours trying to figure  out the oil lines and oil cooler. 

I finally found the answers on a YouTube video on the restoration of an F6F-3 along with some pictures found on the net. They're all posted on my build post, along with my thinking on the issue. Hope they might be useful.

Enjoy the holiday!

[chuck540z3]

6 hours ago, CraigH said:

Hi Chuck I've spent hours trying to figure  out the oil lines and oil cooler. 

I finally found the answers on a YouTube video on the restoration of an F6F-3 along with some pictures found on the net. They're all posted on my build post, along with my thinking on the issue. Hope they might be useful.

Enjoy the holiday!

 

Hi Craig.  Thank you for the heads up and the new pics in your build.  They are very helpful, but I think your "answers" may be wrong, so I have responded with why I think they are here:

 

Oil Cooler Shutter Location- In front or behind the rear wall?

 

This is just another example of why not having pics of the rear engine area, in this case the lower part, is so frustrating.  Even one pic of the real deal would make things crystal clear.

 

Cheers,

Chuck

[SwissFighters]

Hi Chuck, just reading through the thread I became so curious I started hunting around myself for pics of the engine plumbing, even though I have no particular interest in the Hellcat per se. The following link is interesting although only schematic: http://legendsintheirowntime.com/LiTOT/Content/1945/F6F_IA_4506_B-diagram_p021-22_W.png but this following link takes you to another model builder's work, who obviously has some great reference material to scratch build such an outstanding Hellcat: https://scottsmodels.tripod.com/hasegawa_hellcat.htm 
Scott's pics show the oil cooler straddling the firewall, which would make sense when observing the various images of hellcats being restored that you can find on the web. Maybe you could somehow get in touch with Scott...
Thanks for sharing your work and if this is not helpful, hopefully no harm done. 
Tony

 

[chuck540z3]

Thanks a lot Tony.  It appears that Scott has the cylindrical Oil Cooler Shutter canister in front of the wall with hoses attached to it like I did, which doesn't necessarily make me right, because Craig has a few points that would put that OCS behind the wall instead.  We need pics of the real deal to be sure!  I can still change my plumbing setup if required, but until I see a pic of what this actually looks like on a real Hellcat,  I'm sticking to what I've done.

 

Thanks,

Chuck

[chuck540z3]

Mystery solved by Craig, so thanks to him and a major correction for me.  The key pic is this one, that Craig found of the firewall on a Hellcat undergoing restoration.  Despite the fact that the pipes are not to same scale and orientation to the oil cooler diagrams, of which there are several, they are still there and don't seem to have any other purpose than to be for oil cooling.  This would put the Oil Cooling Shutter behind the firewall and not in front of it.

 

 

Now the real proof, again found by Craig in the Hellcat Pilot's Handbook.  It doesn't get clearer than that!

 

So back to the drawing board a bit, which makes my past efforts a big waste of time, although it shouldn't be too hard.  All I need to do is fill that big hole in the firewall and create 3 new hose connections, but at least now I have a pic of the real deal to go by.  Thank you again Craig for pointing this out now, while I can still make some changes.

 

Cheers,

Chuck

 

[chuck540z3]

Feb 4/22

 

 

After discovering that I placed the Oil Cooler Shutter (OCS) on the wrong side of the firewall after all, I thought I’d just fix it when I got home from my vacation.  That would have been a big mistake, because I just know that I would be thinking about it all the time, since my obsessive modeling brain thinks that way and I just hate mistakes.       As a result, I fixed it today.

 

 

First thing to do was to fill the big hole I created for the OCS with a large styrene rod so that it would be strong enough for further, but smaller holes.  Next, I drilled holes and inserted styrene rod pins for the pipe arms that will be installed later, when the engine is installed permanently.

 

 

 

 

With these pins installed, the electrical insulation I’m using as pipes can fit right over them and clear both the engine support and central vent.  Creating and installing the pipe arms is tedious and takes along time, so I’ll do that when I get back from vacation, knowing that it’s not only doable, but mostly “correct”.  Whew, now I can sleep tonight! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

Chuck

Edited February 4, 2022 by chuck540z3

[zaxos345]

I really admire your modelling skills Chuck!! 

 

John

[SwissFighters]

Chuck, I think between you and CraigH you have solved this issue. Continuing my own hunt (I got a bit hooked on this fact finding mission) I found the Parts Catalogue for the F6F-3, -5 in the AirCorps library contains many helpful diagrams and schematics as CraigH suggested, now leading me to agree with your interpretation, but without photo evidence they are not always 100% conclusive. Great work, however, and very likely properly representative of the aircraft. 

[chuck540z3]

7 hours ago, SwissFighters said:

Chuck, I think between you and CraigH you have solved this issue. Continuing my own hunt (I got a bit hooked on this fact finding mission) I found the Parts Catalogue for the F6F-3, -5 in the AirCorps library contains many helpful diagrams and schematics as CraigH suggested, now leading me to agree with your interpretation, but without photo evidence they are not always 100% conclusive. Great work, however, and very likely properly representative of the aircraft. 

Thanks Tony.  The overriding evidence is not the description in the Pilot's manual, because it doesn't specifically say that the control valve is behind the firewall, just the oil cooler, which is obvious.  It's those 2 big pipes on two real aircraft that point towards where the real oil cooler pipes should go.  They are certainly big enough that they can't be missed and I can't find another thing they might be used for, other than being for the oil lines.  The other subtle evidence as pointed out by Craig is that in most of the schematic diagrams of the control valve like the one below, there is a dark background around it, suggesting that it represents a wall that this part resides behind.  Otherwise, what's the point of it? 

 

 

The other strong evidence is that drain valve on the middle pipe as shown on the real deal.

 

 

And this schematic, which shows it to be in about the same spot.  It's gotta be the same thing.

 

 

Anyway, I am now 70% sure it's behind the firewall, as much as I was 70% sure it was in front of the firewall 2 days ago.    Only a pic of the real deal with oil pipes attached will confirm this to be 100%, so if anybody can find one, please bring it on, just in case I am wrong.

 

One good thing if the control valve resides behind the firewall, is that doing what I did above was relatively easy, so anybody can do it in their future build of this kit.  The contraption I made earlier was a real PITA, so it's not for everyone to try and create something similar.  Unless someone can prove that it's in front of the firewall, I will create some short pipes, one with a drain valve on it, in about a month when I get back from vacation.

 

 

Cheers,

Chuck

Edited February 5, 2022 by chuck540z3

[ax365]

Chuck,

There's not much more I can say other than to parrot the others who have commented on the level of detail and precision you aspire to in your build.  Simply incredible.

Further, welcome to the club.  May you enjoy much more quality time with family, friends, hobbies and interests now that you've entered the ranks of the retired.  To bastardize the old Armed Forces recruitment slogan from years ago; Retirement...there's no life like it.

 

Enjoy your vacation and new found freedom, my friend.

[CraigH]

Hi Chuck

Last word on the oil cooler. Contacted John Turanin from AeroAntique.com who replied with the following:

I'm forwarding 2 images from the Erection and Maint Manual AN 01-85FB-2 dated 15 April 1944.  The page with the text clearly states that the oil cooler is positioned aft of the firewall (top right column of page). It isn't clear about the position of the thermal unit, but it appears to me that it is affixed to the port side of the cooler, which would probably put it behind the firewall as well. The second image is of the face of the firewall, and the black/hashed section must be showing the firewall with a cutaway to view the cooler.  If that small subassembly on the cooler is the thermal unit then it's behind the firewall as well IMHO.  I didn't see any other images or references that verify my deduction.

 

All the best

[airscale]

if it helps aircorps library has drawing 26762 which shows this side view (left) - unfortunately it is feint but it shows it's relationship to the tank above it - if you know where that goes, perhaps helpful?

 

 

 

Peter

[chuck540z3]

Thanks a lot guys!  I’m now thinking there’s a 99.9% chance the “bypass valve” is behind the firewall, for this one and only observation:  Those pipes to the right of the circular intake has a straight pipe right next to it and 2 pipes angled towards it on the outside, one with a drain valve, just like the exploded views of the valve assembly.  If that’s not for the oil cooler, what else could it be and further, if the valve assemble was on the outside, those pipes would be in the way.  Like Craig said, “last word”, so we’ll put this topic to rest now.  Having said that, I found this treasure hunt kind of fun!  
 

Aloha (I finally made it to Maui)

Chuck

[jep1210]

Oooh, another one to follow.

 

[chuck540z3]

March 6, 2022

 

 

Well, I’m finally back from 3 weeks in Maui which was wonderful.  Great weather every day and of course, no snow.  Back in Calgary, however, we continue to have snow every few days, which means that it’s time to get back to modeling!

 

 

I can’t do anything more to the engine until I install it permanently, so it’s time to start painting the entire model with a few new techniques that I’ve never tried before.  As shown earlier, all of the larger parts have a very rough finish, which would normally be easy enough to sand down, but this model has the stressed skin (SK) look which is often called  “oil canning”.  If you sand the wings or fuselage very much, you risk removing the quilted look of the SK, so you need to be careful.  Although it’s hard to photograph, here’s a pic of the fuselage I took earlier, which shows some of this roughness.

 

 

 

 

You need to sand it a bit, however, to get rid of the larger lumps.

 

 

 

 

And after assembly with blue paint to check for flaws, I sanded the wings a bit more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like the cockpit, masking off the firewall was quite challenging, but doable using my favorite liquid mask, Mr, Masking Sol by Mr Hobby, to fill the tiny spots and hold everything together.

 

 

 

 

In order to fill the remaining rough finish, I sprayed on 1-2 coats of Mr. Surfacer 1200, which is a first for me as well.  Although this is very common here in these forums, I have always prided myself that the finish of my models was always smooth enough that I have never needed to use a true primer, because I didn’t want extra paint to fill fine detail like tiny fasteners and panel lines.  With this model, however, I decided to go ahead and give it a try for these reasons:

 

 

·       At 1/24 scale, the detail is large enough that filling it is less likely to happen.

·       This kit has excellent fastener and panel line detail as is, without the need to add much more

·       I like to try new things and wanted see what all the hoopla was about Mr Surfacer.

 

 

Before I sprayed it on this model, I checked out the archives of this forum and found some great tips offered by many of you, and went with the following:

 

 

·       I used Mr Surfacer 1200 over 1000 because it is a bit finer and I was afraid of 1000 filling detail

·       I thinned it 50/50 with Mr Color Leveling Thinner, which makes sense since it’s the same manufacturer, much like I use Tamiya lacquer thinner with Tamiya products

·       I used my “big needle” 0.3 mm airbrush, because anything smaller might clog

·       I upped my spraying pressure from a normal of 9-10 psi flowing pressure to 10-12 psi

·       Like all painting, I sprayed until the surface got good and wet, and then moved on.

 

 

All I can say is that it sprayed beautifully and as an added bonus, I didn’t get any “dusty paint” due to air turbulence near the wing root and other tight areas

 

 

 

 

After letting it dry for about 2 hours, I lightly sanded it with polishing cloths to make it extra smooth.

 

 

Some close-ups.  Much smoother than it was before, and all of the detail has been retained.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This pic shows the incredible fastener detail that I want to retain, and that square depression at the bottom is supposed to be there, both top and bottom.

 

 

 

 

Another first for me, is no need to mask off the landing gear wells, because they are the same blue paint as the rest of the aircraft.  Whatever overspray I have will be easily covered when I paint the bottom and that seam line in the middle will be covered with the fuel tank pylon.

 

 

 

 

Like any first coast of paint, flaws are revealed, like this jagged edge to the front of the windscreen join.  The windscreen fit is poor, so you need to make many adjustments to get it looking right.

 

 

 

 

After repairs and a dark coat of blue paint, this flaw will vanish completely.

 

 

 

 

The SK look, remains intact.

 

 

 

 

I finally settled on a subject, which isn’t very original since it’s the same as one of the kit decal options, but I have the DN Models paint masks to replicate this and I wanted a paint scheme that was a departure from all dark blue, which is boring.  I also have the Fundekals  set, which I will be using for all of the stencils, but it also has the smaller “32” stencils that I will cut from the “132” subject in the set.

 

 

 

 

Another reason to go with this scheme, is that I have a “live subject” with the Flying Heritage Museum Hellcat that can be found here:

 

Flying Heritage Museum F6F-5 Hellcat

 

And a detailed Walkaround of it here:

 

YouTube Walkaround Video

 

 

Next step is to paint all of the areas that require white now, mask them off, then paint the main US Navy Sea Blue, ANA623/ANA606, as found with MRP-014.  Thankfully I have almost 2 bottles of the stuff, because this model is huge!

 

That’s it for now and thanks for your continued interest in this long project!

 

 

Cheers,

Chuck

Edited March 7, 2022 by chuck540z3