RYAN STA 1/18

[Ironwing]

On 8/26/2021 at 5:17 AM, Derek B said:

Excellent Geoff - I cannot get enough of this stuff! I also appreciate the experience tutorial; not only does it show us all not what to do (or do correctly), it also shows us all that you are actually human! lol

 

As for losing or having to remake failed pieces and parts, this is an experience I have had for years - I just wish at the moment that I had something as large as 'quarter of a thumbnail' size to work with! (I am making a highly detailed 1/144 scale resin model full kit mater pattern at the moment, so guess how many parts I have lost and had to remake with that!).

 

Cheers

 

Derek

But, soldier on dude and stay tuned. There will be more.

Many thanks

Geoff

[Ironwing]

On 8/26/2021 at 7:13 PM, brahman104 said:

I'm impressed at the amount of "draw" you were able to get on that piece Geoff. Looks like you're getting the hang of this aluminium thing pretty quick!

 

Cheers,

 

Craig

Hi Craig, glad you looked in. Im slowly getting the hang of working with aluminum. Peter makes it look easy..it isnt until you learn how the litho behaves. Ill write more later.

Thank you for visiting...

Best

Geoff

 

[Ironwing]

On 8/27/2021 at 1:26 PM, airscale said:

looks amazing Geoff - well done!!

 

couple of things may help - one, don't worry too much about any rough areas or pillowing, I find with a good buck you can actually sand out many sins - the litho will take it just fine and it just unifies everything once its stuck down permanantly

 

..now as to sticking down, if using contact adhesive as you know you only get one shot, and with something like this where it may make contact on it's way to it's final position it will be really tricky - I suggest find a hinge point (the top maybe) where you can add a tape hinge to hold the desired position in one axis and if will slip without touching into its final spot you are onto a winner. The alternate might be to CA it once it's in place by wicking it around the edge..

 

I only offer this because I have had trouble in the past where something fits like a glove to the buck, but there is no way to contact stick it without bending it open to minimise the touchpoints (it can always be bent back afterwards)

 

really enjoying watching you nailing it and I would add you probably started with the hardest part so the rest will be a breeze

 

all the best

Peter

Peter,

Always good to see that youve looked in and commented. Thank you for sharing tips. Theyre most welcome. BTW..you make this look to easy

Indeed I did start with the hardes part. If I couldnt pull it off, the ST-A wouldnt fly. The litho made me stop and do a lot of testing an learning about how litho behaves. Ive much more to learn but what I have learned has gotten me this far. 

Again I thank you for looking in.

Regards

Geoff

[Ironwing]

On 8/27/2021 at 1:53 PM, JayW said:

What a craftsman.  I just cannot make this hobby an artform like you and some others. My smiley face on your post is for losing the pieces to the ether.  Only because we have all been there.  My latest is cutting off meng nuts, and trying to trim them, under high magnification, and then like Schroeder's cat, just disappearing before my very eyes after tedious thankless work.  I think they take off like tiddly winks!  Ping!

 

Dude,

I always enjoy your comments but I must disagree with you. What youre doing is as much an art form as any other. What youre doing is just working in a different art form which, produces stunning results. Art comes in many forms and your work shows that.

Thanks Bud...hope all is well

Best

Geoff

[Ironwing]

Greetings All

 

I hope everyone is well. This isnt a big update but its a major step in building the ST-A. I went off in the weeds for a bit attempting to learn the secrets of litho and how to work with it. Much was learned with plenty more to learn, but Ive been able to establish techniques than are predictable and consistently produce acceptable results. My main takeaway..its all finesse. Minimal force at all times. The litho, once annealed, is remarkably plastic. By plastic, I mean that it flows. You can make it move with minimal pressue with the top of your fingernail. Ive taken to using a miniature polished stainless steel spatula (Ill include pics next posting)as a primary tool. Much harder than the litho, it forces the surface to respond without damage with very little pressure. You work the material slowly and make corrections a little at a time. The material needs time to react to watever is being done to it. If you go too fast or use too much force, the material will kink or tear. Finding the right consistency for the contact adhesive takes a bit of doing as well to get it to where it will laydown smoothly without lumps.

 

The first cowling panel has been attached permanently. Not a big deal on its surface, but without it being there, you have nothing to align the other panels to. Putting the panels on is a one time shot. You have to nail every aspect of it on the first pass.

It requires a lot of preparation before laying the panel on. Flat panels might be easier but these panels are all curved, especially the front of the cowling where everything blends in to spinner.

 

The nose piece is not yet permanently attached but it has to bethere to get panel articulation alignment. The area that was to receive the panel was masked off to control adhesive application. The m the book asking was left in place until the panel was put down.

Another little trick I took from the book "Scratchbuilt" was to put wax paper(in the book it says freezer paper) between the panel and the cowling after the contact cement was applied and ready for the part to go on. It keeps the surfaces from touching each other. The contact cement barely grabs the wax paper. The part goes down over the wax paper and aligned. Once edge alignment is good, the wapaper is slid from underneath a little at a time while the panelt is slowly worked down. Much more to learn and even more to do.

The results of the first panel applcation...

Nothing has been  done to the cowl top other that being rubbed down with the spatula.

 

The nose piece hasnt yet been attached.. the nose piece and the top cowling piece are critical to creating the Shape of the ST-A 

nose profile.

 

A bit dirty but I think usable. The finish is well within sanding distance and should clean up nicely.

Id be willing to bet that what you see on the surface of the litho, is the result of how the material has moved.

 

The small gap closes cleanly with the nose piece when to push on the nose piece slighty.

 

The side panels will go next and then the bottom.Once all panels are on, the nose piece will be set in place permanently. All will be sanded starting with 600 or 800 paper wet. Fastener detail will then go on. Still lots of chances to screw up

Thats it for today. This was a big step for me.

 

Hope everyone is well. Ant questions about the litho, please ask.

 

Best regards

Geoff

[brahman104]

Bravo indeed Sir! Litho in very much a cunning opponent, but as you said it can be tamed. This is going to look awesome when all polished up Geoff!

 

Interesting tip about the wax paper too....

 

Craig

[Oldbaldguy]

This build is so grand.  In light of that, I feel the need to point out that, unless you are modeling an Oshkosh Grand Champion million dollar restoration, the cowling parts most likely would not be a tight flush fit at every seam because, after all the years of wear, that’s just the way they are.  Having owned and operated airplanes older than I am (and I am getting up there), I find things like sheet metal with rounded corners or uneven gaps to be part of their charm and patina.  Like salt and pepper hair, if I had any.

[Ironwing]

On 9/4/2021 at 2:54 PM, brahman104 said:

Bravo indeed Sir! Litho in very much a cunning opponent, but as you said it can be tamed. This is going to look awesome when all polished up Geoff!

 

Interesting tip about the wax paper too....

 

Craig

Craig 

Glad you looked in. Litho does give up it's secrets.. slowly. The main secret..it's plastic before final attachment. And even after final attachment, the unattached sides surface remains plastic. This means you can push the material around. It doesn't take much force at all. It's remarkable stuff to work with but there's a learning curve.

The wax paper thing wasn't my idea. I picked it up in the Alcorn, Lee, Cooke publication..Scratch Built.

I used it..it's works.

Thanks for visiting

Geoff

[Ironwing]

On 9/4/2021 at 5:26 PM, Oldbaldguy said:

This build is so grand.  In light of that, I feel the need to point out that, unless you are modeling an Oshkosh Grand Champion million dollar restoration, the cowling parts most likely would not be a tight flush fit at every seam because, after all the years of wear, that’s just the way they are.  Having owned and operated airplanes older than I am (and I am getting up there), I find things like sheet metal with rounded corners or uneven gaps to be part of their charm and patina.  Like salt and pepper hair, if I had any.

OB 

I'm glad you visited. I understand your point. It's aptly put. My interest in this started out a long time ago. I just like the lines of the ST-..and the wheel pants kill me. I like the mix of metal and fabric with a wooden prop that has a brass LE. Scratch building it at the start was pretty easy.. but now the work density is going up. Learning a new material and how it works. You know better than I what the ST-A nose is like. It's a bunch of oblate spheroids in tangent with other spheroids...then having to cover it in lithoplate. Ill stop pontificating. 

I like the postulates you present..I have no disagreement..none. I just want to build an ST-A

 K visiting...your always welcomed 

Best 

Geoff

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ironwing]

Greetings All

I took a bit of time off with the grandson(hes 4) and its back to work. I still cant get over how annealed aluminum behaves. There is still much to learn but now having attached the two side panes to the cowling..Im a bit wiser.

I dont really know what things should like like at this stage in terms of rough finish, but what Im doing seems to agree with the litho.

I mentioned, in my last post, that I had been using a polished stainless steel spatula for rubbing down and smoothing the surface of the litho, both before and after final attachment of the part...here it 

 

 

In reading thru articles about aluminum forming, I came across a shaping too that looked like a bent spatula, very similar to this one. I gave it a shot. It has an excellent capacity for smoothing annealed litho. Being stainless, many times harder tha aluminum, It moves the material quite easily and doesnt scratch the surface.

 

Have a look...

The nose cap hasnt yet been attached permanently. The surface hasnt been sanded, only rubbed down with the spatula. Note the difference in finish between the top segment and the side panels. The top panel hasnt been rubbed with the spatual..the side has been.

 

The opposite side...

[Ironwing]

There isnt much to show. But, three panels are on, they fit well, the surfaces are pretty smooth, well aligned, Ive learned a lot, and Im happy with it. Next comes the lower cowl pan. This will be a bit different. The pan will have to match up with the lower edges of the side panels and the trailing edge of the nose cap as a single piece. It should be interesting

 

Hope everyone is well...Please be safe

 

Geoff

[brahman104]

Thanks for the tip about the spatula Geoff. I'll have to give that one a try! Always learning new things

 

Craig

[Ironwing]

Greetings All

 

Hope veryone is well. Some progress has been made, albeit slowly. This has been quite the learning experience but Im so glad I did it. Its not a quick process in any way. Litho is a finicky material once its annealed but it isnt without consistent characteristics that can be identified and overcome. I think the best explanation I can give, is that, annealed litho spreads like peanut butter. You push it around or smear it to wear you want it to go. If youre working it on a buck, you tap it with the hammer gentley. Think of it this way, if you have a flat sheet and you tap in the center, the edges go up. If you tap at the edges, the center goes up. You bend it around curves by tapping along the curve in straight lines, back and forth towards the bottom of the curve. You walk the curve in by walking the material (pushing) with the hammer. I wont say its easy to do, but as you work with it, it does get easier..patience is key. 

 

Curves add a twist to the process and the ST-A nose is one big curve.I started with it because it seemed to be the most difficult aspect. So, its at the point where, after some edge clean up, the nose cap can go on. That operation will be tricky because of the curves and the tendency of contact cement to grab as soon as it touches. Ill use waxed paper between the cap and the buck as a standoff (I hope) to give me time to adjust the cap.  No sanding will be done untill all components are in place so they can be blended together at the same time. Remember, the spinner needs to be litho covered as well. Ill have to fix the spinner seat before hand. I squeezed it a bit to hard and broke a bit of it around its OD.

 

So here we are. All the panels have been permanently attached except for the nose cap...You can see where I pushed the spinner seat in.

Still in its rough state, the finish currently was done using the spatuala I mentioned in my last post and my trusty ole fingernail. Its great tool. Its hard, smooth, nonabrasive and very capable of moving the litho around..the litho likes it.

 

Clean straight edges are a must. Edges can be sanded by working inline with the edge, never perpendicular to it unless its supported.

 

 

 

 

 

Still a very long way to go..but its getting there,one small step at a time.

Right now my greatest concern is the motteling of the surface/material. I dont know if thats only on the surface or if it goes all the way thru. Right now the surface is pretty smooth and shouldnt take much to sand it out.

 

Thats it it for today. I hope everyone is well...

Be safe

Best

Geoff

Edited September 16, 2021 by Ironwing
spell check

[brahman104]

Nice clean edges Geoff... Is there latches etc to add once it's all sanded and smooth?

 

Keep up the great work!

 

Craig

[Ironwing]

Hello again

 

I just had to do these photos as an after thought. Thus far, the cowling has just been a piece of disconnected metal so I wanted to see it attached where it belongs.

 

 

 

 

Didnt want you to forget that its an airplane  

 

Be safe

Geoff