Question: Late World War 2 US Navy Corsair - kill marks

[CShanne]

Question, I have noticed a lack of kill markings in photos of late war corsairs - on carriers. For example, VF-84 had a few aces as well as other pilots with at least 1 kill, and yet there are no kill marks (that I have seen in photos) on the aircraft. I would guess that this may have been up to the either the Commander of the Air Group or the ships captain? Does anyone know about this phenomenon? I have searched but I am finding nothing in writing. 

 

 My initial search was and is to figure out which aircraft Ira Kepford was assigned in the squadron, for example, I know Roger Hendrick’s bird was white 167.  so, if anyone knows the answer to that, please let me know.  
 

My modeling plan is to build 1 of each of the aircraft assigned to Ira Kepford, I know he was assigned F4U-1 plane 17-F-32 and I know he was assigned F4U-1A planes 7, 29.  I am curious about the F4U-1D he may have been assigned to for the short time he was with VF-84.

 

Any information or direction to sources would be greatly appreciated, my google searching has gotten me no where, I have plenty of references for VF-17.

 

thanks!
 

 

[Juggernut]

Sorry Chris, I got nuttin for you on those questions.  I'll keep a lookout and will let you know if I find anything specific.  You might try searching official VF-84 records but since he was only with the squadron while training, those records may be very short.

[CShanne]

Yeah, I have been trying, but my searching for VF-84 records has turned up nothing.  The other option is to select a different pilot, which is tempting, it is certainly a long term project, so I have a long while before I get to the F4U-1D.  
 

still, I find it really odd that there were no kill marks on most of the photos I see of late war Corsairs, even by pilots I know had kills...  I thought maybe it was a navy reg, but there are late war F6Fs with kill marks on them... 

 

Maybe Dana Bell will see the post, he has done a ton of research and may have some idea. 

 

Thanks for the reply! 

[Juggernut]

Send him a PM.  He’ll most certainly see it then.  

[Oldbaldguy]

Navy guys tend/tended to fly whatever airplane is “up” rather than the same one over and over in the way USAAF did.  I think you’ll find that the kill markings you’re asking about were the brainchild of a bespectacled PR guy looking for a good morale photo for the folks back home than squadron practice.

[LSP_K2]

Good question, and one that I've never really considered. The Osprey Corsair Aces book, shows several Corsairs with kill markings, but with only a few exceptions, most seem to be land based Marine Corsairs.

[CShanne]

1 hour ago, Oldbaldguy said:

Navy guys tend/tended to fly whatever airplane is “up” rather than the same one over and over in the way USAAF did.  I think you’ll find that the kill markings you’re asking about were the brainchild of a bespectacled PR guy looking for a good morale photo for the folks back home than squadron practice.

I actually thought about this as well, and you may very well be correct.  That said... I have not seen anything written about this to confirm this, plus the fact that there are numerous photos of different late war hellcats with kill marks. Anyway, more of a curiosity question than anything else. Just begs the question as to why... there are reasons for everything :-) 

[Oldbaldguy]

And the next question would be whether the kill marks you’ve seen on Hellcats and such, assuming they were not a PR thing, were earned by that particular airplane or by a particular pilot.  Squadrons almost always had more pilots than serviceable airplanes on a given day, so just because Fred’s name is painted on the side doesn’t mean that’s Fred in the seat.  Fred goes out and shoots down three zeros and when he gets back the plane captain proudly stencils three kill marks on HIS, the PC’s, airplane.  Joe launches the next day in the same airplane, shoots down two and the plane captain puts on two more.  For this exercise, the airplane has five kills but Fred and Joe don’t. George flies this same airplane with five kills on it two days later but has never fired a shot in anger.  There are five kills on the side of his airplane and he is certainly not an ace but how would we know that?  Wow.  Just gave myself a headache.

[justplanecrazy]

My Dad flew Hellcats with VF-16 off the Randolph at the end of the war. I asked him this question years ago and he said the pilots were not assigned aircraft but flew them according to where they were spotted on the deck. The Navy considered planes and pilots interchangeable. Any kill marks were recorded on the VF's scoreboard on the side of carriers island. He also said he usually flew wing on CAG (I believe Moffet was his name) and not even he flew the same aircraft all the time. I'm sure there were exceptions as noted previously but Dad said that kill marks on Navy planes at this point in the war were for pictures and PR purposes.