Tamiya 1/32 F-4J marines Phantom kit no 08 correct exhausts.

[TankBuster]

Thank you very much to everyone who replied, As I am in Australia Gt ones are a bit expensive with postage so trying to obtain Wolfpack items through BNA models who carry Wolfpack but are out of stock at moment of F-4J exhausts, should hear back today from them about restock. I am not in a hurry for them just collecting any aftermarket for the kit that I think I need, already have black box cockpit and quickboost intake covers and will probably grab a wheel set to. Cheers Bob

[Breaker]

Can confirm that Wolfpack will also be too small. 

[Mark P]

What about Cutting Edge? They did a set of cans for the E/J in 1/32nd.

 

Mark Proulx

[Mark P]

Perhaps an addendum could be added to the Phantom tweek lists identifying the various burner cans and which are sized properly and which are not.

 

Thoughts?

 

Mark Proulx

[TankBuster]

Thank you, I will save a bit more and get the GT resin ones from Spue Brothers. Cheers Bob.

[BloorwestSiR]

7 hours ago, Mark P said:

What about Cutting Edge? They did a set of cans for the E/J in 1/32nd.

 

Mark Proulx

 

The old Cutting Edge ones are undersized as well. 

 

I had a pic in my Photobucket account comparing the kit, CE, Aires, Eduard and GT Resin burner cans. Only the GT Resin cans were the correct size. The rest were all undersized/smaller in diameter. 

 

Carl

 

 

[thierry laurent]

Out of my memory the correct ones were/are made by CAM, Joe Lortie, GT and QMT. All other long cans have some dimension issues but this is more obvious for some of them whereas others are fractionally larger even if yet too small.

[Luca]

7 hours ago, thierry laurent said:

Out of my memory the correct ones were/are made by CAM, Joe Lortie, GT and QMT. All other long cans have some dimension issues but this is more obvious for some of them whereas others are fractionally larger even if yet too small.

Wolfpack are correct?

[Cheetah11]

 

How far are the Aires F4-J burner canns off. I scaled up the F-4E drawings Jennings made of the F-4E and the Aires canns are only 0,5mm too small and the kit ones are 2,5 mm too small. Does anyone have the dimension of the real J79 afterburner nozzle?

[thierry laurent]

Hi guys.

 

I do not how off are the Wolfpack ones. You must take into account two things: the correct/incorrect dimensions of the original master and the possible loss of size linked to resin casting even if the original part is ok. This is why it is difficult to be 100% sure without checking the parts. I had some major problems to use some resin parts from some manufacturers like Aires or Mastercasters because of that mold/resin retraction issue. Note some companies do not seem to have such quality control issues.

[thierry laurent]

2 hours ago, Cheetah11 said:

 

How far are the Aires F4-J burner canns off. I scaled up the F-4E drawings Jennings made of the F-4E and the Aires canns are only 0,5mm too small and the kit ones are 2,5 mm too small. Does anyone have the dimension of the real J79 afterburner nozzle?

Have a look here:

 

http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2012/12/j79-exhaust-nozzles.html

 

Hth

[TankBuster]

Hi, great info here. I will be buying the GT exhaust from sprue brothers, just wondering if there is a coupon code available for the site and will I be able to use it as a first time buyer and being in Aus. Regards Bob.

[cmayer]

23 hours ago, Cheetah11 said:

 

How far are the Aires F4-J burner canns off. I scaled up the F-4E drawings Jennings made of the F-4E and the Aires canns are only 0,5mm too small and the kit ones are 2,5 mm too small. Does anyone have the dimension of the real J79 afterburner nozzle?

I don't have measurements for the -8/-15 short cans (those used on the F-4B/N, C/D, RF-4C and early RF-4B); but I was able to measure the diameters of some -17s (USAF F-4E), both while mounted on the aircraft, and while stored on the engine trolley; and both a fully closed nozzle (as it would be in mil power while in flight), and fully open, as they were most often while shut down/parked.

 

EDIT: To clarify, these measurements from a J79-GE-17 apply to the -10, as well, so the data is good for the entire F-4E/EJ/F/USAF G as well as the J/S and late RF-4B (with -10 motors) and RF-4E series of airframes.

 

Straight measurements in inches:

Length of the -17 augmenter petal (turkey feathers), from the edge of silver mounting trim to the end of the petal (fully open nozzle*): 26" [1/32 scale = 13/16" or 20.65mm]

Base of the Augmenter (diameter): 38" [1/32 scale = 1 3/16" or 30.18mm]

Diameter of the fully open augmenter (straight across the open petals at the aft end of the can): 37" [1/32 scale = 1 5/32" or 29.35mm]

Diameter of fully closed nozzle (engine resting on maintenance trolley): 29.75" [1/32 scale = .9297" or 23.50mm]

Diameter of metal mounting trim (thin metal ring around the augmenter nozzle): 38.25" (basically a 1/8" gap around the augmenter) [1/32 scale = 1.195" or 30.36mm]

Width of the metal trim midway down the augmenter: 2 5/8" (from the camouflage skin to the augmenter); note: this applies to -10/-17 type aircraft only [1/32 scale = .082" or 2.08mm]

Length of the engine bay vent (4x metal vents at the top of the engine mounting trim): 4 7/8" [1/32 scale = .152" or 3.87mm]

 

Measurement accuracy: with an assistant to manage all the tools, I used sections of 2x4 and a level to extend the baselines from the top/bottom of the mounted engines to get a straight diameter for the base of the augmenter; could be off a 1/4' here or there. But the measurements for the open-end of the augmenter are accurate within 1/32 of an inch, as I was able to pull the tape measure directly across the open augmenter petals (outside to outside measurement), without any contortions or obstructions. Even so, I wish I had a 6-foot caliper micrometer...

 

I also took measurements of the intake along with the fixed and variable ramps; but the values I got are the same or very close to the measurements I've seen posted by Derek and Ian from their work on the F-4J (UK), so I haven't added those to the forum (all J-79 Phantom intakes and fuselages should have the same measurements and contours).

 

* - Also a word about the length of the augmenter petal: I didn't measure the "length" of an open vs. closed augmenter (I wish I had); I merely measured the length of an individual petal (26") which will be the same length whether the augmenter is open or closed...what would also be useful, would be the distance from the metal trim, to the end of the augmenter when it is fully open, and fully closed...I imagine the fully open dimension would be just a hair under 26", since the petals are not quite perpendicular to the mounting ring when fully open, and the closed distance would probably be somewhere close to 23"-24", as the nozzle closes into a tight, conical shape.

 

Hope this helps. I don't have a Tamiya F-4 to measure...and I've always read, "the Tamiya Nozzles are horribly undersized...." But looking at photos of the great builds I've seen on this site and elsewhere, I've also wondered if the Tamiya nozzles were actually too small in diameter, or if their aft fuselage was too fat. Over time, however, I'm now convinced both are true: their nozzles are too small and the aft fuselage is also too large.

 

Good Hunting!
Chris

Edited March 2, 2021 by cmayer

[Mark Maclean]

Q-M-T also do a set of resin exhausts sold for the Revell kit but I've purchased a set for my Tamiya Phantom and they fit and look a lot better due to being a larger diameter.

[Cheetah11]

15 hours ago, cmayer said:

I don't have measurements for the -8/-15 short cans (those used on the F-4B/N, C/D, RF-4C and early RF-4B); but I was able to measure the diameters of some -17s (USAF F-4E), both while mounted on the aircraft, and while stored on the engine trolley; and both a fully closed nozzle (as it would be in mil power while in flight), and fully open, as they were most often while shut down/parked.

 

EDIT: To clarify, these measurements from a J79-GE-17 apply to the -10, as well, so the data is good for the entire F-4E/EJ/F/USAF G as well as the J/S and late RF-4B (with -10 motors) and RF-4E series of airframes.

 

Straight measurements in inches:

Length of the -17 augmenter petal (turkey feathers), from the edge of silver mounting trim to the end of the petal (fully open nozzle*): 26" [1/32 scale = 13/16" or 20.65mm]

Base of the Augmenter (diameter): 38" [1/32 scale = 1 3/16" or 30.18mm]

Diameter of the fully open augmenter (straight across the open petals at the aft end of the can): 37" [1/32 scale = 1 5/32" or 29.35mm]

Diameter of fully closed nozzle (engine resting on maintenance trolley): 29.75" [1/32 scale = .9297" or 23.50mm]

Diameter of metal mounting trim (thin metal ring around the augmenter nozzle): 38.25" (basically a 1/8" gap around the augmenter) [1/32 scale = 1.195" or 30.36mm]

Width of the metal trim midway down the augmenter: 2 5/8" (from the camouflage skin to the augmenter); note: this applies to -10/-17 type aircraft only [1/32 scale = .082" or 2.08mm]

Length of the engine bay vent (4x metal vents at the top of the engine mounting trim): 4 7/8" [1/32 scale = .152" or 3.87mm]

 

Measurement accuracy: with an assistant to manage all the tools, I used sections of 2x4 and a level to extend the baselines from the top/bottom of the mounted engines to get a straight diameter for the base of the augmenter; could be off a 1/4' here or there. But the measurements for the open-end of the augmenter are accurate within 1/32 of an inch, as I was able to pull the tape measure directly across the open augmenter petals (outside to outside measurement), without any contortions or obstructions. Even so, I wish I had a 6-foot caliper micrometer...

 

I also took measurements of the intake along with the fixed and variable ramps; but the values I got are the same or very close to the measurements I've seen posted by Derek and Ian from their work on the F-4J (UK), so I haven't added those to the forum (all J-79 Phantom intakes and fuselages should have the same measurements and contours).

 

* - Also a word about the length of the augmenter petal: I didn't measure the "length" of an open vs. closed augmenter (I wish I had); I merely measured the length of an individual petal (26") which will be the same length whether the augmenter is open or closed...what would also be useful, would be the distance from the metal trim, to the end of the augmenter when it is fully open, and fully closed...I imagine the fully open dimension would be just a hair under 26", since the petals are not quite perpendicular to the mounting ring when fully open, and the closed distance would probably be somewhere close to 23"-24", as the nozzle closes into a tight, conical shape.

 

Hope this helps. I don't have a Tamiya F-4 to measure...and I've always read, "the Tamiya Nozzles are horribly undersized...." But looking at photos of the great builds I've seen on this site and elsewhere, I've also wondered if the Tamiya nozzles were actually too small in diameter, or if their aft fuselage was too fat. Over time, however, I'm now convinced both are true: their nozzles are too small and the aft fuselage is also too large.

 

Good Hunting!
Chris

 

Thanks a lot Chris

 

A quick look seems to indicate the Aires nozzles (Only ones I have) are 1.2mm too small in diameter. This is not too noticeable and I will go with them in a future build.  The kit ones are 3.2 mm too small in diameter. At least we know now where we stand.

 

Nick