Artful69 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, oyoy5 said: Crazy but you would think Dragon would be all over this. There are some awesome paint schemes and also the nightfighter variant would sell of the shelf I believe. Cmon Dragon let’s go...... Ok so first up ... we've all been saying this for ages here ... nothing new - you're right on the money! Who ever it was at Dragon / Cyber Hobby that designed the Bf-109.E and Bf-110.C, D and E kits should have been retained by the company at all costs ... They are the number one "go to" kits of their type. Why they didn't proceed further, we'll never know ... Perhaps, even with all it's boxing variations, it didn't meet sales expectations ... who knows? It does seem that Dragon has reduced their output significantly in recent years ... along with a lot of other manufacturers ... as the global economy has contracted and we've seen no new 1/32 scale offerings from them. I can confirm though, that all posts above are correct ... Pastor John's AIMS conversion is as easy to work with as any non-injection amendment is likely to be - and an accurate representation ... He has produced ALL parts necessary to convert ANY of the Dragon boxings to an accurate G-2 or G-4 ... You just need to inform him while making the order as to which boxing you possess. The Revell kit is simply a re-pop of the Dragon C-7 kit with better instructions, different markings and a crappier box! ... I'm pretty sure it provides decals for a BOB bird so it's on my hit list for future purchases!! I agree with the "alternate sprue" theory given above - One (or two) nice big sprues, clear sprue and instructions would have done the job. One of the reasons that the D1 "Dackelbauch" kit seems to be on sale regularly is because of it's unpopularity compared to the others - it might have been better to invest the expense of that weird belly tank into a G variant instead ... Rog Edited February 22, 2021 by Artful69 mozart, Uncarina, Derek B and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monthebiff Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 20 minutes ago, Artful69 said: Ok so first up ... we've all been saying this for ages here ... nothing new - you're right on the money! Who ever it was at Dragon / Cyber Hobby that designed the Bf-109.E and Bf-110.C, D and E kits should have been retained by the company at all costs ... They are the number one "go to" kits of their type. Why they didn't proceed further, we'll never know ... Perhaps, even with all it's boxing variations, it didn't meet sales expectations ... who knows? It does seem that Dragon has reduced their output significantly in recent years ... along with a lot of other manufacturers ... as the global economy has contracted and we've seen no new 1/32 scale offerings from them. I can confirm though, that all posts above are correct ... Pastor John's AIMS conversion is as easy to work with as any non-injection amendment is likely to be - and an accurate representation ... He has produced ALL parts necessary to convert ANY of the Dragon boxings to an accurate G-2 or G-4 ... You just need to inform him while making the order as to which boxing you possess. The Revell kit is simply a re-pop of the Dragon C-7 kit with better instructions, different markings and a crappier box! ... I'm pretty sure it provides decals for a BOB bird so it's on the hit list for future purchases. I agree with the "alternate sprue" theory given above - One (or two) nice big sprues, clear sprue and instructions would have done the job. One of the reasons that the D1 "Dackelbauch" kit seems to be on sale regularly is because of it's unpopularity compared to the others - it might have been better to invest the expense of weird belly tank into a G variant instead ... Rog And as I said earlier that Revell boxing is an absolute steal if you are planning one of these conversions! Also to note regarding the Dragon 110s is the clear sprues are so damn brittle and need to be treated with real care. If the Revell clear is as good as their 88's then even better! Regards. Andy Artful69, mozart and Rick Griewski 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierry laurent Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 10 hours ago, monthebiff said: And as I said earlier that Revell boxing is an absolute steal if you are planning one of these conversions! Also to note regarding the Dragon 110s is the clear sprues are so damn brittle and need to be treated with real care. If the Revell clear is as good as their 88's then even better! Regards. Andy It will not be as Revell is not producing such sprues. They rebox the Dragon-made bagged sprues with new decals and instructions in other boxes. Nothing more. Artful69 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artful69 Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 28 minutes ago, thierry laurent said: It will not be as Revell is not producing such sprues. They rebox the Dragon-made bagged sprues with new decals and instructions in other boxes. Nothing more. Odd ... well ... it seems so to me ... I thought that these companies doing the re-pops had the moulds under licence (eg - Dragon moulds, Revell plastic) ... same with the re-popped Tempest (Special Hobby moulds, Revell plastic) ... otherwise Dragon would be selling injection moulded plastic rather expensively I would have thought ... If the moulds are supplied under a fixed lease, Revell can pop as much plastic as they'd like, yeah? ... Anyway ... just goes to show you learn something new every day ... I never would have thought that thats how it would operate. Rog monthebiff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monthebiff Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 2 hours ago, thierry laurent said: It will not be as Revell is not producing such sprues. They rebox the Dragon-made bagged sprues with new decals and instructions in other boxes. Nothing more. Interesting! I will contrast and compare my Dragon sprues with my Revell boxing when I recieve it on Friday! Regards. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierry laurent Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, monthebiff said: Interesting! I will contrast and compare my Dragon sprues with my Revell boxing when I recieve it on Friday! Regards. Andy By the way, this is the way they do with all their re-released kits coming from Hasegawa, ICM, Bandai and others. monthebiff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierry laurent Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Artful69 said: Odd ... well ... it seems so to me ... I thought that these companies doing the re-pops had the moulds under licence (eg - Dragon moulds, Revell plastic) ... same with the re-popped Tempest (Special Hobby moulds, Revell plastic) ... otherwise Dragon would be selling injection moulded plastic rather expensively I would have thought ... If the moulds are supplied under a fixed lease, Revell can pop as much plastic as they'd like, yeah? ... Anyway ... just goes to show you learn something new every day ... I never would have thought that thats how it would operate. Rog Keep in mind this would ask for moving heavy and cumbersome molds. This is far less cost-effective than purchasing some cycles of mold use. monthebiff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierry laurent Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 This also explains why such re-releases are always a limited edition. The number of models is limited to the sets of sprues purchased from the other company. Sometimes both companies agree on another run. I think this occured with some Hasegawa kits such as the Me 109G4 or the 1/48 FGR Phantom. Artful69 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artful69 Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) On 2/23/2021 at 5:33 PM, thierry laurent said: It will not be as Revell is not producing such sprues. They rebox the Dragon-made bagged sprues with new decals and instructions in other boxes. Nothing more. On 2/23/2021 at 7:54 PM, thierry laurent said: Keep in mind this would ask for moving heavy and cumbersome molds. This is far less cost-effective than purchasing some cycles of mold use. On 2/23/2021 at 8:17 PM, thierry laurent said: This also explains why such re-releases are always a limited edition. The number of models is limited to the sets of sprues purchased from the other company. Sometimes both companies agree on another run. I think this occured with some Hasegawa kits such as the Me 109G4 or the 1/48 FGR Phantom. Well ... I had to put in a few orders with local suppliers .... and one of them happened to have stock of the Revell kit ... Since it was on the "kits to buy" hit list I pulled the trigger and bought it. Yesterday afternoon (12/03) the kit arrived ... This morning I decided to do an unboxing-style look at the kit contents ... The Revell box is made out of the same flimsy cardboard material as usual - and the box is big enough to fit two kits in there - although the box is a base and lid set-up as opposed to the usual end opener so .... progress! Anyway ... The plastic looked lighter in colour to me ... and the consistency of the plastic seemed more like the softer Revell stuff to the harder Dragon casting that I'm used to ... So ... I grabbed the latest Dragon casting out of the stash (The Trop 'E' boxing) to compare - my suspicions were confirmed. Then I grabbed one of my Revell Ju-88 kits and I can definitely confirm the the Revell boxing IS Revell: ... box, plastic, instructions, decals etc ... Now ... I don't know WHERE the plastic was cast ... Do Revell have a factory based in China? ... did Revell specify the style of mix in the plastic for Dragon to cast? While not doubting your previous insights into "boxing-another-companies-plastic-under-licence", what I know for certain here now is that the plastic in the Revell boxing is in undoubtedly Revell. Rog Edited March 13, 2021 by Artful69 Rick Griewski and Uncarina 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierry laurent Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 Thanks for the check. I did not do such a plastic consistency comparison. The color difference is not really relevant (just different proportions of grey plastic balls in the mix made before casting) but the consistency/hardness change is indeed intriguing. This shows the use of a different polystyrene. I cannot explain that as normally companies do not bother changing that formula of plastic they use to produce some hundreds (or thousands in the best case) of sprues. Do not forget model kit casting companies are purchasing bulk amounts of raw plastic balls from chemical groups. The last time I discussed with somebody from Revell they were relying on casting companies in Eastern Europe. But that was more or less ten years ago and we just discussed about some LSP produced internally (at least that meant Revell had the intellectual property). I'm suspecting they are now relying more on Asian companies as well. It is possible Revell asked for compliance with a specific plastic grade but I've never heard of that kind of request. Note that there is some consistency in Wingnuts Wings plastic quality in spite of the fact their kits were produced by various subcontractors. I doubt this is just a random-based coincidence. So, I guess this can be part of the agreed quality requirements. Interesting ! Artful69 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artful69 Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, thierry laurent said: Thanks for the check. I did not do such a plastic consistency comparison. The color difference is not really relevant (just different proportions of grey plastic balls in the mix made before casting) but the consistency/hardness change is indeed intriguing. This shows the use of a different polystyrene. I cannot explain that as normally companies do not bother changing that formula of plastic they use to produce some hundreds (or thousands in the best case) of sprues. Do not forget model kit casting companies are purchasing bulk amounts of raw plastic balls from chemical groups. The last time I discussed with somebody from Revell they were relying on casting companies in Eastern Europe. But that was more or less ten years ago and we just discussed about some LSP produced internally (at least that meant Revell had the intellectual property). I'm suspecting they are now relying more on Asian companies as well. It is possible Revell asked for compliance with a specific plastic grade but I've never heard of that kind of request. Note that there is some consistency in Wingnuts Wings plastic quality in spite of the fact their kits were produced by various subcontractors. I doubt this is just a random-based coincidence. So, I guess this can be part of the agreed quality requirements. Interesting ! Very interesting!! ... I think the idea that makes the most sense is that that Revell must have contracted someone in China to re-pop the plastic using their own various QC/QA methods including plastic to be used (probably had the instructions, decals and boxes done there by different contractors also) ... That way the moulds don't travel too far from the owners and - lets face it ... most cheap mass produced stuff these days is coming out of China ... Revell have re-poped a few kits lately originating from other companies - it seems to be a change in their MO ... I haven't bought the Revell version of the Special Hobby Tempest yet ... but when I do I'll have a quick plastic comparison on that one also ... Interesting discussion Thierry ... Thanks for sharing your insight ... Rog thierry laurent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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