anybody else having problems with aki paint lifting in spots

[dashotgun]

I

 

 

 

 

t is the lacquer and was  layed down over tamiya primer and was allowed to dry for days.  ( admittedly a thin and uneven coat the  revall mustangs details are soft)It is not lifting uniformly only in certain areas.  I like aki  I am new to  it  suffering through the  lack of model master enamel curses to the new owners.  I   flows beautifully was thinned slightly with mr thinner or just mr leveling thinner.  It lifted under the lowest tack frisket film!!!

also from  orcal 810 which is pretty low tack  correction  the areas lifted did not have primer underlay

 

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by dashotgun

[dashotgun]

rather then chuck it in frustration I am going to touch it up and do decals.  The enamel white stripes  never dried properly either and have to be redone

[Giorgos]

On 2/18/2021 at 7:19 PM, dashotgun said:

I

 

 

 

 

t is the lacquer and was  layed down over tamiya primer and was allowed to dry for days.  ( admittedly a thin and uneven coat the  revall mustangs details are soft)It is not lifting uniformly only in certain areas.  I like aki  I am new to  it  suffering through the  lack of model master enamel curses to the new owners.  I   flows beautifully was thinned slightly with mr thinner or just mr leveling thinner.  It lifted under the lowest tack frisket film!!!

also from  orcal 810 which is pretty low tack  correction  the areas lifted did not have primer underlay

 

 

 

 

Have you tryed with tamiya masking sheet? 

[dashotgun]

yes  I used tamiya tape it and  very low tack frisket film  the issue is the bare  plastic where it was primed on the wings has been no problem.  I did not wash the model before hand or spray with   oil remover and i think revell must have used more die release oils then tamiya or hasegawa as I usually dont bother  with the washing step.  Kevin futter did a  review  based on spraying on evergreen sheet and it did not lift so I think that is a possible variable.  Strangely  enough the  invasions stripes  were fine   white was model master enamel and  black was model  master lacquer.  I  masked and painted the national insignia on the wings( give up as I could not get the stars to register) the wings were primed and the  paint did not lift there

[dmthamade]

aki?  Is this AK Interactive? IIRC it's an acrylic paint? Think you found the answer, you need to prime the build. After having some disasters with acrylics, EVERYTHING gets primed!! Tamiya spray bomb primer, even the Tamiya XF series airbrushed on  i've used as primer under various acrylics, no more pulling off paint.

 

Don

[Paul2660]

As I understand AK paint, the  AK glass bottle paint is acrylic lacquer like the MR color paint. Their paint in the plastic bottles which similar to the Ammo by Mig bottles, tall and thin, are acrylic based.  They came out with the lacquer based paints a couple of years ago. 
 

They require different thinners. 
 

I have airbrushed their lacquer based line and so far the paint has held down well mostly on a pre primed surface either Mr Surfacer or AK acrylic grey primer (which is not lacquer based).  But I also worked on a few projects where I sprayed directly to the plastic and the paint held down well during masking. 
 

My mistake at first was not using their thinner. Once I started using the AK real colors thinner the paint started to behave much better. 
 

Paul C 

[dashotgun]

itis the lacquer  ak interactive real color  I am using mr thinner or mr leveling thinner   which acording to both ak and other reviews on the web is fine.  i think it is the lack of  primer and or  a model with residual grease on it

[Giorgos]

29 minutes ago, dashotgun said:

itis the lacquer  ak interactive real color  I am using mr thinner or mr leveling thinner   which acording to both ak and other reviews on the web is fine.  i think it is the lack of  primer and or  a model with residual grease on it

I think the same I use a lot real colors with out problems (with leveling thinner) 

[dashotgun]

it is a bummer the model was coming along so nicely almost no construction  issues and my  homemade masks were  coming along  great.   I will finish it but  

Edited February 20, 2021 by dashotgun

[dmthamade]

Cockpit does look great, hopefully you can save it. I just sprayed a build with AK Real Colors Modern, and had no issues with paint pulling up. I did prime with my go to, Tamiya spraybomb primer. I wish i had far better ventilation, i would definitely use these and other Acrylic Lacquers, they spray so nicely.

 

Don

[dashotgun]

Thanks i am going to minimize more masking by switching to decals if it really comes down to it strip prime and re paint 

[Woody V]

IMO, your first mistake was using a water based primer. My suggestion is to use a lacquer based primer thinned with hardware store thinner. Lacquer thinner for model paints is quite tame, it will not affect styrene but the common misconception is that hardware store lacquer thinner will dissolve minute surface details. This is true if you pour it on but when mixed/diluted with paint there is only enough "heat" to minutely etch the plastic to form a molecular bond between the primer and the styrene.

 

Lacquer is also the only paint that can be re-wet. What that means is that subsequent layers will bond to previous layers by partially dissolving the previous layers and actually becoming one layer. You can prove this to yourself by letting lacquer paint dry and then adding lacquer thinner which will make it liquid again. Keeping this in mind each layer should go down wet, not just wet enough to get the paint from the airbrush to the model but wet enough to partially dissolve the previous layer. 

 

The most accepted way to paint makings is light mist coats, which will get color on the model but not actually bond to the previous layer. The best way to get the bond you want is to airbrush a wet coat of Leveling Thinner over the area, or just do the whole model. By doing this your mist coats re-wet and bond to the previously applied paint. It will also flow out overspray, but not orange peel.

 

Lacquer has amazing properties. Learn to utilize these properties.

[dashotgun]

Tamiya primer is water based? The stuff in the spray cans is lacquer i thought?  Any way the only area that lifted was the ones i did not prime, i stupidly did not prime the whole airframe for some reason. Also the lifting was not where the markings were it was around it where i burnished the mask down. Interestingly enough when i minimized the area on a mask with post it notes it worked fine. 

 

 

 

[quang]

Looking back, your problem is a simple one. It mainly deals with the incompatibility of the different paints you used: enamels, water-based acrylics and lacquers.

There’s also a precise order to which these different paints has to be applied to avoid paint lifting. For instance, applying lacquer over enamels is instant karma 

 

Adding to the confusion is the way you called the paints you used. Use their full denomination (or better still post a photo of each bottle). It took me some time to understand what ‘aki paints’ meant. Some sort of new Japanese brand?

This is mainly a chemistry-related issue. Being precise will help finding a solution.

 

Cheers,

Quang

[dashotgun]

Ak interactive is a lacquer acrylic thinned with lacquer. Tamiya spray bomb fine primer is lacquer. Lacquer lacquer .  enamel for the invasion stripes. No violation of lacquer first enamel  second then water based paint. Sorry i thought you all were familiar with the AK based paint line should have specified the lacquer line. Personally i dont use water based paint ironically because i think it lifts. The problem has been over come i think i should have washed the mold release oil off i skipped that step for some reason model master enemels was immune to it .  Also second error did not prime the entire model only the wings and tails where i had no lifting. So i think i  dud not do the basics and got a poor result. Will post a pic later