kkarlsen Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 Thank you for the comparison of the kit parts, that's great! Kent mozart and Anthony in NZ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geedubelyer Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 What a magnificent looking engine. It would be worth getting one simply to display on a stand next to the completed airframe. Available from next week? Superb. Thanks for sharing this Kev LSP_Kevin and mozart 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozart Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) A chap on Facebook has just correctly pointed out that Lukasz’ Gipsy Major engine isn’t quite right for Tiger Moths! On the starboard side is what he says is the carburettor intake (I don’t know much about engines) but it’s the mechanism that rises vertically up the centre from a horizontal channel and finishes just forward of a disc with a “cross” embossed on it. Comparing photos he’s right, damn. Could be adapted mebbe? Do we yet know how it’s supplied, as a one piece mould or several bits - if the latter the correction should be straightforward along the lines of the Silver Wings piece? Now this really is the kind of connection that we need with kit producers! Lukasz has already picked up on the Fb conversation, acknowledged his engine is currently slightly wrong for the Tiger Moth and is going to correct it. THAT is top notch! Edited January 31, 2021 by mozart quang, geedubelyer, Jan_G and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Kevin Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 hours ago, mozart said: Now this really is the kind of connection that we need with kit producers! Lukasz has already picked up on the Fb conversation, acknowledged his engine is currently slightly wrong for the Tiger Moth and is going to correct it. THAT is top notch! Indeed! Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozart Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) Part 9 - ODDS & SODS (but still important!) I'm nearing the end of my meanderings through the hills and valleys that comprise the complexities, vagaries and minutiae of the venerable (and venerated) Tiger Moth and her 1/32 scale plastic renditions (to date). So it's bits and pieces time....we'll start with props and doors. Viewers of a tender disposition might want to look away from one photograph in the next series. The subject matter: The props are all pretty similar in size, the Revell one differs in shape, narrowing more than the other two along the blade length. I've struggled to find a good photograph of a prop, this is the best I can do....you could say the Beauty and the Beast! Based on the above I think Silver Wings yet again win it for shape. The Revell one is clearly wrong but the spinner on it, and the ICM one appear too small and pointed. Moving quickly onto the doors (no more shocks!), they are really very thin and are opened and closed by two "toggles" on the top which are squeezed together to release the mechanism: and closed: What's on offer: A marked difference in size between Revell's and the other two and in the width dimension, Revell's being about 1mm thick, the others half of that but still not thin enough. ICM have it hands down, they have the toggles for opening and the hinges when closed - Silver Wings have omitted both. I would imagine most models will have at least one door open, so thinning these helps give the right scale effect. Talking of thickness and shape....the windshields: A right mixture here!! ICM's are definitely the best for thickness, or should that be thinness? Revell and Silver Wings are very thick and just look wrong. But Revell's seem very shallow, ICM are suggesting that the forward shield is deeper than the aft one (which I've never noticed but who's to say?) and Silver Wings are very brittle and difficult to remove from a thick casting block without damage....ask me how I know x2!! Exhibits A and B m'lud: Hmmmm, looks to me on the above as if the forward one maybe shallower! And finally going down below, this is what you see: So there are longitudinal strengthening bars, the length of which can vary from Moth to Moth, an access hatch towards the rear and the mechanism for operating the ailerons. Don't quote me but I think the tubing is related to the pitot tube and air pressure readings. What's this like in kit form? Rudimentary is the most polite comment! Better, and the hatches shown in PE. But it can be easily improved: The best? Both Silver Wings and ICM supply the "L" shaped bracket to which the aileron cables are attached, but nothing further. It may be underneath, it's not easily visible but for the sake of accuracy I think attention to this area is worthwhile. So, probably one part remaining to write, and that will deal with the markings, schemes and transfers supplied with each kit. Bye for now! Edited January 31, 2021 by mozart Out2gtcha, geedubelyer, Anthony in NZ and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geedubelyer Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) Great stuff once again Max, many thanks. I wonder if the doors could be fabricated from metal sheet to get closer to a scale thickness? The form is a gentle, simple curved form so it oughtn't be too difficult. I have thought about using a similar technique for the cowling covers that you covered earlier. Interesting to see the differing shapes of the windshields. Does this mean there is more of a market for your versions? Thankfully the windscreens are a relatively straightforward design. A bit of experimentation might be necessary. This thread will be an invaluable resource. Brilliant effort. Edited January 31, 2021 by geedubelyer Spelling, punctuation and generally poor writing :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozart Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) Yep, way to go Guy! I’ve previously made engine panels out of lead foil using the Revell plastic part as a mould, though I’m going to redo them using the Silver Wings panels after comparing shapes! I intend making lead foil doors on my Silver Wings Tiger Moth, especially since they are factionally undersize for the door openings, just a narrow strip of plastic top and bottom plus the two catches to be added. I need to do some further work on my Silhouette-produced wind shields, not totally convinced by them yet. Edited January 31, 2021 by mozart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozart Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) Part 10 - TRANSFERS & SCHEMES A brief word about rigging. Revell in a sense cover the subject well, in fact they provide a black cotton thread with the kit which I suspect nobody uses these days with many better options being available, but throughout the detailed instructions you are told where to drill holes for rigging lines and the stages at which to fit the thread should you wish to use it. Silver Wings is quite disappointingly vague; there are drawings which show rigging positions but like so many aspects of their instructions booklet, not quite precisely enough to my liking. ICM's instructions are clear, rigging lines are shown in red with appropriate lengths (assuming you are using non-elasticated rigging material), as are drilling points. For the main rigging they would have you fit the rigging whilst the upper half of the lower wing is in place and the lower half of the upper wing, so lines can be pulled through and secured. Only then do you fit the other respective wing halves.....a neat solution! Revell's markings options: The first point to note is that these transfers were produced in 1997, but look perfectly good and usable, no yellowing at all. I like very much the attention to detail with stencilling. There's not a lot of this on a Tiger Moth, just lifting and trestle positions, places not to step and oil grades etc. All are included here. The finish is matt and all in register, though I do think it's odd where roundels are provided without the centre red disc, these being separate and needing to be added later. Three schemes are available: It's slightly odd that floats are provided as well as skis for a build option but no markings are included for this. Silver Wings markings options: The finish is shiny which doesn't make a lot of sense for the wartime schemes but is OK for other periods. All are in good register. Several schemes on offer: Unlike the Revell kit, there is a bare minimum of stencils provided, and these too small I think: and quite a glaring omission for the de Havilland Training School aircraft G-ACDA, no de Havilland logo on the tail fin!! You'll also note that G-ACDA has the extra footwell below the rear cockpit, so a little whittling required with the kit here! A colour guide is included but no cross references to any particular paint brand: ICM marking options: Pretty disappointing I feel, possibly trying to keep costs down - just two not very inspiring options. and just a "LIFT HERE" stencil. The finish is shiny but all in register. And that's about it for the comparison exercise. Which kit is best? Well I think that depends on several factors such as skill level, material preferences, budget, accuracy expectations etc. Each have their strengths and each their weaknesses. For detail and accuracy I think Silver Wings wins it, but it's resin, expensive and their instructions leave a lot to be desired. The old Revell kit should not be discounted because of its antiquity, it can still be made into a very presentable and accurate model but it clearly needs more work to achieve this than the other two. Being so new, the ICM is an unknown quantity build-wise, but I think it has been well thought out and engineered and will prove to be the model of choice for many and I like ICM's policy of bringing out figures which fit with the kit, some trainee pilots are planned for later this year. I think it will look good built OOB but has the potential for adding extra detail if required. If you decide to build a Tiger Moth, whichever kit you choose.....have fun!! I think it would be great to have some of your finished pictures added to this thread. Edited February 1, 2021 by mozart LSP_Kevin, Grunticus, Out2gtcha and 5 others 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierry laurent Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Thanks Max! Excellent review work. With regard to the floats without decal scheme in the Revell box, the reason in simple. There was such a scheme in the original kit made by Matchbox but it looks Revell had no interest in that quite uncommon option. And I'm not surprised ICM only released two Brit schemes. It is more than probably because they like releasing multiple boxings. I'm sure at least two other boxes are coming from them. mozart and Uncarina 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozart Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 Good point Thierry, makes sense from ICM's business perspective, can't blame them for that. Glad you enjoyed the review, I certainly had a lot of fun doing it and it's given me an appetite to get on with one or two TM kits that needed further attention. thierry laurent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony in NZ Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Brilliantly done Max, so much useful information in there. I will have to go back and check, but how do the fuselage shapes compare? Thanks again Anthony mozart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geedubelyer Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 7 hours ago, mozart said: and quite a glaring omission for the de Havilland Training School aircraft G-ACDA, no de Havilland logo on the tail fin!! Super comparisons again Max, great job. Perhaps the gloss of the decals will blend with an application of varnish? Another omission are the DH logos on the struts. They can be seen in that smashing image of G-ACDA that you shared about half way up each strut. As an aside, if anyone fancies creating some custom decals of those logos I'd be in for a set. It's sad that you've come to the end of this topic Max but I sincerely hope that everyone can keep it alive by adding in photos of their built TigerMoths. May I say thank you once again for all of the time and effort you've put in. I shall definitely be using this in the future. Cheers. mozart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out2gtcha Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Thanks Max! Im still on about the ICM Tiggie, but I think like Thierry said, there are multiple boxings coming. I still am hoping to gather one up soon, and will wait and see for things like a Yahu IP set. Cheers! mozart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozart Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 Thanks Anthony and Guy. Must admit I haven’t done a detailed shape comparison Anthony, the only obvious difference was a few mm length but that could easily be accounted for by the rudder configuration and how it’s attached. I might try a series of overlays though. I’ve done your masks for ANSM Guy, I’ll get them in the post ASAP. I painted ANFM’s struts this afternoon, I’ll have to check my references for DH logos though. Hand painted I reckon if needed. Anthony in NZ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozart Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) According to my references (Stuart McKay’s seminal book The de Havilland Tiger Moth) G-ACDA and G-ACDC have always been separate aircraft. CDA was Build No. 3175 and CDC 3177, both at de Havilland’s works at Stag Lane, where the Tiger Moth was designed and developed. During the war years both were in service with the RAF, CDA as BB724 and CDC as BB726 then returned to civilian use post-war. I’m not sure I understand your query Maru about the DH logo on the tail. Photographs show she has one, Silver Wings have missed it, that’s it really, an oversight. Edited February 1, 2021 by mozart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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