Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Suffice it to say that when I started working on the Wolfpack MiG Hunters project, I thought I knew an awful lot about the Phantom.  I was wrong!  The more I dig on this amazing bird, the more subtle nuances I find, and the more I'm amazed at the excellence of her design.

 

I've extensively photographed and measured five different airframes, including a YF-4J (that was born an F-4B), an F-4C, and three F-4Es.  We're blessed in Tucson to have two former Thunderbirds F-4Es in town, both of which are easily available for reference purposes.  As I posted elsewhere, I drove up to Alamogordo NM recently to crawl all over the late model FY74 QF-4E that's currently at the Alamogordo airport awaiting repainting and eventual public display in town there.  I've looked at just about every set of F-4 drawings ever done, and none of them satisfied me - hence risking life and limb crawling around, under, and on top of the birds I've been able to do, taking my own detailed photos and measurements.  And when I think "There, I'm done!" - I find something I've missed!  Happens every time.  I keep tweaking.

 

It is my firm belief that nobody since the McDonnell engineers in St. Louis has ever really, truly accurately drawn the F-4E down to the last detail (well, almost the last detail anyway).  But I submit to you my latest work.  A late production F-4E with the slatted wing, TISEO, and factory installed strike camera boxes.  I still have some work to do on the cockpit, but I'm pretty sure this is what a Phantom is shaped like!

 

Yes, I'm a Phantomoholic :)  

 

Hn4caZ.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, allthumbs said:

Nice...I’ll be following with interest.
 

Curious about your take on the “Wings of Pegasus” drawings...click here.

 

Those are Jun Temma’s drawings.  He is very, very good - and 100% self-taught in drafting and the interpretation of technical documentation and photographs.  His work is amazing, but it’s quite different from mine.  His work is great for overall shapes and dimensions, but he doesn’t go into anywhere near the level of detail that I like to do (like measuring the radius of the rounded corner on a panel!).  Jun and I have been in correspondence for quite a while, exchanging thoughts on various parts of the airplane.  

Edited by Jennings Heilig
Link to post
Share on other sites

Brilliant Jennings - thank you (as a phellow phantom nut, I look forward to seeing your work)...I have always had an itch to make a 1/24 F-4E, so you may tip things into the balance here for me! :)

 

Best regards

 

Derek

Edited by Derek B
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Jennings Heilig said:

 

Those are Jun Temma’s drawings.  He is very, very good - and 100% self-taught in drafting and the interpretation of technical documentation and photographs.  His work is amazing, but it’s quite different from mine.  His work is great for overall shapes and dimensions, but he doesn’t go into anywhere near the level of detail that I like to do (like measuring the radius of the rounded corner on a panel!).  Jun and I have been in correspondence for quite a while, exchanging thoughts on various parts of the airplane.  

Just out of curiosity - how do your drawings compare in shapes and outlines?  If you've done your own measurements, there may be subtle differences...?

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, jenshb said:

Just out of curiosity - how do your drawings compare in shapes and outlines?  If you've done your own measurements, there may be subtle differences...?

 

There are always subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) differences between any two drawings you can name.  That's why I have always maintained, and will always maintain, that there is no such thing as a "perfectly accurate" drawing.  It simply doesn't exist.  Orthographic projections (which is what our  multi-view drawings are) are based on X, Y, and Z coordinates in space.  Aircraft manufacturers don't create such drawings - they have no need to.  Draftsmen create them, and they are a whole sub-genre of drafting that require the ability to obtain, interpret, and utilize manufacturer dimensional and structural drawings to come up with something like what I've posted.  But you can't create them with just data, you also need to be skilled in photo interpretation and manipulation to get anything close to precise shapes and proportions.  I don't attempt, and have no need to produce, things like what Jun Temma has done, which includes cross sections, etc.  I just have no need to go to that length for my purposes.

 

I wouldn't compare my drawings with anyone else's, simply because I do them for my own use (not to be published as a stand alone reference), and for my own purposes (mainly decal art illustrations).  

 

Mine are **far** from perfect, but I'm very well pleased with how they've turned out.  I've been tweaking my 737 family drawings for over 20 years, and I'll probably go on tweaking them until I'm too old and feeble to tweak them any more (and they'll still be building new 737s by then too...).  

 

j

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jennings Heilig said:

I've been tweaking my 737 family drawings for over 20 years, and I'll probably go on tweaking them until I'm too old and feeble to tweak them any more (and they'll still be building new 737s by then too...).  

 

j

While I truly wish you a long and happy life, if Boeing is still trying to peddle 737’s for another decade or two, I’m guessing they will be close to being bought out by their European competitor.   

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/16/2020 at 5:23 PM, John1 said:

While I truly wish you a long and happy life, if Boeing is still trying to peddle 737’s for another decade or two, I’m guessing they will be close to being bought out by their European competitor.   

 

Lockheed has been building the C-130 since 1953 and there's no end in sight for that to end! Others have tried to replace it but it hasn't happened! 

 

Cheers...Ron  (C-5A/B / C-130E / MC-130P / MC-130H loadmaster and former Lockheed employee)

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, aircommando130 said:

 

Lockheed has been building the C-130 since 1953 and there's no end in sight for that to end! Others have tried to replace it but it hasn't happened! 

 

Cheers...Ron  (C-5A/B / C-130E / MC-130P / MC-130H loadmaster and former Lockheed employee)

This is true to a point.  I believe that the J-model production line is starting to wind down as well.   I hope that Lockheed will come up with another version or ideally, a clean sheet design for a new tactical airlifter.   

 

In the case of the 737, the Max fiasco put the final nail in it's coffin.  Unless BA is content to yield 75% of the single aisle market to the A320/A321 family (with the lower end of the market starting to lean towards the surprisingly efficient A220), Boeing needs to finally pull the plug and go with a brand new design.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Boeing is in no position to launch anything more expensive than a canoe right now.  The MAX fiasco has cost them tens of billions (so far), so a direct 737 replacement isn't in the cards anytime in the foreseeable future.  There's no end in sight for the 737, and it's FAR from having the last nail in its coffin.  Several significant orders for the MAX have been booked recently, and the much predicted mass cancellation of MAX orders simply hasn't happened.  It's still a great aircraft, and airlines have a lot invested in 737 infrastructure that would cost them a LOT of money to replace wholesale.  Literally every repair station in the world knows how to work on 737s, and the supply pipeline for 737 parts and consumables is very well established worldwide.  The "797" will be a completely different project, meant to replace the 757 and to some extent the 767 more than the 737 family.  And that one is going to cost them a pretty penny when they finally decide to launch it.  If and when *that* aircraft is a success, then, and really only then, will they be potentially in a position to launch a new smaller aircraft.  Meantime 737s continue to be major profit generators.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

Hi Jennings.. I hope its ok that i have copied your drawing... Have you any others?...different projections that you are willing to share? Always been a massive fan of the Phantom and the Harrier GR7/9. Watching this thread with interest, along with all the others Phantom related...

#KeepSafe

Edited by Maybach_man
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...