Italeri CF-104 Starfighter "Kicked up a Notch": KLP Publishing eBook now Available!

[Derek B]

19 hours ago, chuck540z3 said:

Well that was a lot embarrassing!    Good eyes and thank you for pointing out what a dumb installation I had made.  I was so worried about getting the gear lower detail in the forward position that I wasn't paying attention.  All better now- although it makes me shudder to think I might have glued it that way upon final installation!  I have edited the above post accordingly to not steer anyone in the wrong direction.

 

Also, Jari has pointed out to me that the VideoAviation dispenser I used should have a line straight down the middle of the bottom of the dispenser, because there are two doors on either side and not just one big one.  Check the pic of my F-4E above for placement.  With this line on the very bottom, I'm not going to worry about it since it's already painted, but you might want to add this detail to yours if you use the same part.

 

 

Cheers,

Chuck

 

Hi Chuck. The fact that it could even be installed in the reverse sense so well surprised me! - I am glad that you managed to pick up on this before you completed the mounting position of your dispenser.

Superb work on the decaling of your model Chuck, it really brings it to life.

 

I have one question Chuck, only for my understanding of your rivet theory for this model, so I would be grateful for your insight. AFAIK, the F-104 airframe is substantially flush riveted (apart from the areas you had already identified as having raised rivets). If I am correct in thinking that the resin rivet decals you have applied to your model are slightly raised, then I would have thought that this would provide an appearance that differs from the full size original aircraft? However, if you are doing this to achieve a specific appearance effect, then that makes perfect sense to me (I am just curious to understand the rational, that's all?).

 

Notwithstanding my question, the work you have done on your model is exemplary and I am very grateful for your very precise step by step guides, which are more than helpful to all.

 

Best regards

 

Derek

[chuck540z3]

2 hours ago, Derek B said:

 

Hi Chuck. The fact that it could even be installed in the reverse sense so well surprised me! - I am glad that you managed to pick up on this before you completed the mounting position of your dispenser.

Superb work on the decaling of your model Chuck, it really brings it to life.

 

I have one question Chuck, only for my understanding of your rivet theory for this model, so I would be grateful for your insight. AFAIK, the F-104 airframe is substantially flush riveted (apart from the areas you had already identified as having raised rivets). If I am correct in thinking that the resin rivet decals you have applied to your model are slightly raised, then I would have thought that this would provide an appearance that differs from the full size original aircraft? However, if you are doing this to achieve a specific appearance effect, then that makes perfect sense to me (I am just curious to understand the rational, that's all?).

 

Notwithstanding my question, the work you have done on your model is exemplary and I am very grateful for your very precise step by step guides, which are more than helpful to all.

 

Best regards

 

Derek

 

Hi Derek,

 

Bingo on the comment you made above, "if you are doing this to achieve a specific appearance effect, then that makes perfect sense to me." As discussed many times in this thread earlier, to replicate rivet/fastener detail we have two choices: Raised or Recessed?  Recessed would have been nice, but how do you add literally thousands of them cleanly in very complex and super tight patterns?  Wheeled riveter tools are OK for straight lines on flat surfaces, but in tight curved areas they won't work at all.  That leaves raised rivets and ones like Archer decal rivets are way too high, when the goal is actually flat.  The HGW rivets, thankfully, are raised but only slightly so, are silver already and have no decal film, which I think is the best solution on the market today.  Even regular HGW wet transfer decals like I used on my Tempest are slightly raised, whether people realize it or not.

 

Cheers,

Chuck

Edited March 12, 2021 by chuck540z3

[Derek B]

Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me Chuck (I apologise for not picking this fact up in your earlier posts).

 

Regards

 

Derek

[MikeA]

Well that is one amazing lot of surface detail! Very impressed how the slightly raised rivets give the impression of something flush mounted and only seen from certain angles. My only misgiving about it is that you do end up with a perfect surface without all the scratches and marks that appear even on the polished surfaces. But for that effect you have gained, a compromise worth doing.

 

FWIW I painted the area occupied by the raised panel for the central bomb carrier matt black as a slither of the void the carrier is mounted in does show around the carrier itself.

 

Cheers

[chuck540z3]

36 minutes ago, MikeA said:

My only misgiving about it is that you do end up with a perfect surface without all the scratches and marks that appear even on the polished surfaces. But for that effect you have gained, a compromise worth doing.

 

Cheers

 

Thanks Mike, but I haven't even started weathering yet and a big part of that will be scratches.  I plan on dry brushing some metallic washes I have, which may or may not work out and like the HGW rivets, time will tell if it does.  No matter how convincing it looks, it still won't look as good as real bare metal, but then again, decals, rivets and other fine details usually don't show up very well on foil either, especially when you look at close-ups.  Like everything in modeling, each construction step, painting session and technique of pulling it all together is a compromise of what looks good and what is practical. 

 

Of course I am referring to most modelers and not our own Peter Castle.  Peter can do anything, including using real metal and make it look like the real deal, because in the end, it is the real deal at a smaller scale. 

 

Cheers,

Chuck

[Troy Molitor]

Oh Canadaaaaaaaaa!  Love it mate.  

[Michael931080]

Damn Chuck that 104 is surely starting to look the part!  I can remember these 104's and their CAMO'D versions screaming up Lake Ontario back in the day headed to the CNE Air Show!  Back when they had a four day air show as these guys whizzing twenty feet off the deck on the lake!

 

 

Man I miss those days!  

[Wolf Buddee]

What an amazing freakin’ build Chuck!
 

Fantastic Sir!

 

Cheers,

Wolf

[chuck540z3]

March 14/21

 

Where to begin?

 

When I first started this build my goal was to make one of the original CF-104’s from the early 60’s like the ones shown in the first pic of this thread, and while earlier versions of this Italeri kit have these decals, there are no aftermarket decals available as back-up, ever since Canuck Decals folded up their shop and their decals are OOP.  The decals in this kit and the Belcher Bits back-up decals that Rockie Yarwood kindly sent me, also OOP, are for the latest versions of the CF-104 which to me, are the least attractive scheme.  There are various schemes of CF-104’s over time and from what I can tell, these are the four main ones, although there could be others.

 

1.      Early 60’s with “RCAF” (Royal Canadian Air Force) in bold letters on the fuselage (and lower right wing), always at the front, with super detailed maple leaves on the roundels.  Bare metal finish.

2.      At some point in the mid-60’s, the maple leaves on the roundels were simplified to the ones found today, still along with “RCAF”.  These leaves can be found in both large and small versions and are fairly rare to find pics of, so were no doubt short lived.

3.      When the Canadian Forces were merged in 1968 (stupid!), the “R” was dropped and “CAF” was left, which now meant Canadian Armed Forces, which was labeled on the top of the engine intakes in both English and French.  The “CAF” on the fuselage is always on the left, rather than the front.  Still a bare metal finish.

4.      The “CAF” is dropped and “ARMED FORCES/ FORCES ARMEES” is written on both sides of the fuselage, with “CANADA” on the top of the intakes.  This is the version of decals found with this kit and the Belcher Bits version. Both bare metal and Euro camo green/grey finish- and my least favorite scheme by far.

 

Here’s a pic of the 2 sets of decals I had to begin with.  No “R” for RCAF, so it looks like I’m stuck with version #3 and #4 above and limited serial numbers.

 

 

 

 

Belcher Bits continues to sell decals for the Canadian T-33 in 1/32 scale, so I bought a set to see what was included and if I could use any of them.  Bingo!, they not only have the “RCAF” on two sheets, but they have a multitude of letters and numbers in various sizes and fonts.  Here they are on the left and lower right corner, with the CF-104 version in the top right, to show that the font size and type of "RCAF" is correct.

 

 

 

 

With these new decals, I then looked for a subject and found this rare photo, which has both “RCAF” and the modern large maple leaf roundel.  It’s a bit grainy, but I can still clearly see 12883, 12760, 12842, 12730, 12761 and then it gets too blurry to tell.  Not wanting to overuse my limited supply of numbers, just in case I wreck a decal or two, I picked the second one in line, 12760.  With the decals I have- some modified- I can get fairly close to this scheme, although exact font size is out a bit for the tail code, which is also true of the kit decals.  I also note that not only is the panel at the front of the vertical stabilizer painted grey to prevent corrosion (since the panel is magnesium) which is well known, but so is the rear upper rear cap which I bet is missed a lot.  I will make sure to do that too.

 

 

 

 

I think I’m pretty good at applying decals, mostly because I’ve experienced every problem possible and have had some disastrous results from time to time.  Fighting my way through the problems, I have come up with several solutions that can be found in a tutorial here:

 

How To Apply Decals

 

 

Although I’m experienced at applying decals, this stage of every build still scares the crap out of me for the following reasons:

 

1. As shown above in my tutorial, some decals are good and some are horrible.  Which of the 3 sets I have are going to give me problems?
2. I have a new metal finish and thousands of tiny decal rivets underneath.  Sanding off a problem decal and repainting is not an option!
3. How well did the X-22 clear coat seal the Alclad from decal solutions?  As shown earlier, Microsol dissolves Alclad Chrome.  Again, repainting is not an option!
4.  

So after decaling, here is what I found:

 

The Belcher Bits CF-104 Decals are not very good.  I needed them for the big red circles around the fuel caps (other decals sheets didn’t have them), but I had one shatter and they didn’t react to Microsol very well.  Still the fuel caps worked OK so I was glad to have them, since painting those big circles where they are located would have been a nightmare.

 

The Belcher Bits CF-133 Decals (RCAF T-33, Product BD-24) are FANTASTIC and with all the various numbers and letters, are a must have for many other modeling subjects.  They slid off the backing with ease, were strong and Microsol was not needed, unless they covered a panel line or deep fastener detail.  I just ordered another set.

 

The Kit Decals, as usual, scared me, although I noted they were printed by Cartograf, which are usually good.  They looked quite thick and I’ve never had good luck with a kit decal, which is why I try to avoid them at all costs.  Well, I can honestly say that they are also FANTASTIC!!  Although they are slow to release from the backing, once on the model you can be a bit rough with them without worrying about them tearing.  Most of them are not thick at all, reacted very well to Microsol and again, I didn’t need hardly any because they stuck so well with just water and Microset.  The stencils are also very finely detailed and you can actually read them, which is amazing with such tiny font.  They are probably the best decal stencils I have ever used- ever.  My only complaint is that the instructions for some of them are vague and with tiny little stencils, it’s hard to see where they should all go exactly.  Big tip though, cut the stencils up into smaller prices for ease of handling, because some of the long strings are quite unwieldy and who wants all that extra decal film?

 

Scary and true story that I’m still amazed by.  After doing about half the decals before a Zoom meeting that I had coming up in 15 minutes, I broke my own Rule #2 in my tutorial and decided to add one more decal as I was rushed, but this was one of the larger clear stencil decals (#10 on right intake) which can be quite tricky at the best of times due to its size and how thin it is.  Sure enough, it started to fold on itself and no amount of extra water or solution would get it to settle down.  Getting a bit desperate (and rushed), I decided to pull the whole thing off and throw it into the water to become unstuck.  This worked as usual, but then I did the unthinkable:  Rather than slip some decal backing under the big decal, I used a paintbrush to lift it instead and with the hot water, the sucker shriveled like a small raison!  I was screwed!!  With nothing to lose- and certainly no decal backups to go to- I put the decal on a flat piece of cardboard and using the paint brush again, tried to unfold the tangled mess.  Nothing would budge and I was afraid of tearing it, but then a small corner straightened out, then another and after 10 minutes, just when my Zoom meeting started, I got it fairly flat, but it was bone dry by then like a thin piece of cellophane and still a bit shriveled.   A bit shaken by my own stupidity, I set it aside for the one hour meeting, then tried to reapply it to the intake afterwards.  Shockingly, it started to conform with lots of Microset and by working out the corners with the paint brush, it actually straightened out without tearing.  Further, it stuck to the model like a champ and didn’t need a drop of Microsol!  It looks just as good and straight as the decal on the other intake.  All glue washed off, air dried for an hour and it worked like nothing bad had happened.  I am so lucky- and again amazed- but it speaks to the quality of these kit decals.

 

It took me one day to do the big decals and another full day to add all the stencils.  One problem I had was determining which stencils applied to my subject and which ones were for mostly European F-104G’s- and there are a LOT of tiny stencils!  Detailed pics of mid-60’s CF-104’s are super rare and using restored CF-104’s is not much help either, because those who restored these birds were probably using the same pics as references.  Further, I found that some of the restored Starfighters are not correct, although I will never criticize those who volunteered their time to do their best so that you and I can still see these iconic Cold War fighters.

 

So here is a bit of walkaround, to show you the decals I applied with a thin coat of X-22 to seal them in.  I need not have worried about the X-22 sealing the paint, because I had no issues with decal solutions at all.  Note that I have not done any weathering, like dirtying up the antenna patch on the fuel tank/gun door, or added some scratching and dull coat to specific areas.  This is Decal Stage Only and too glossy as a result!

 

 

 

 

This pic shows the application of all 3 sets.  Lettering and numbering are from the Belcher Bits T-33 set, gas cap circles from the BB CF-104 set and the rest are kit decals.  For the Rescue arrow which is a little bit too long, I cut it off the black on yellow placard, which was moved forward as per reference pics, but not a bad compromise with no decal sheet alternatives.  For the black bar across the gas fuel cap, I used another decal in the kit.  Note that straight on you can see the rivet decals quite easily, but from an angle they disappear into a shiny reflection, showing how low relief they really are.  One other thing I found a bit surprising is that the letters and numbers should be slightly below the center line, which is the point of the intake and yes, the upper fuel tank circle goes over the antenna panel to the left of it (DACO book, page 15).

 

 

Note how tiny those stencil markings are...

 

 

A little Microsol sucked the roundels into the wing recesses easily.

 

 

For the reference pic above of the real deal, the serial number font is a bit small, but the same size and font as later versions including the numbers of the kit decals.  Another small compromise.  Also, there are grey colored decals for the front panel with all the small stencils on it (G22 and G23), but they do not fit that panel at all!  That's why I painted the panel first, then applied generic stencils instead.  The red "Blast Line" indicator around the fuselage was also painted instead of using decals.  This is much cleaner than using decals, but a little risky to mask cleanly on a bare metal finish where any over-spray would be "not good"!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a close-up of that problem decal.  You would never know that it used to look like a raisin and was air dried!  This close-up also shows how little decal film can be seen.

 

 

 

I'm pretty certain that you would see decal film if they were on foil.  Just sayin' 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's all Folks!  Still lots of work to do.

 

By the way, since I am nearing the finish line with this build and for those who have asked since I usually do a prop after a jet, here's my next modeling project.  Should be fun- and very, very detailed!

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

Chuck

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by chuck540z3

[FunkyZeit]

Nice! You’re welcome for the Hellcat idea

 

justin

[chuck540z3]

1 minute ago, FunkyZeit said:

Nice! You’re welcome for the Hellcat idea

 

justin

 

And you're welcome for the Navy F/A-18C Naval Adversary idea! 

 

Chuck

[LSP_Kevin]

Excellent decal work, Chuck! Uncompromising as always.

 

Kev

[scvrobeson]

The decals all look excellent. Can barely even tell that they're not painted on.

 

Can't wait to see the Hellcat. That should be a lot of fun.

 

 

 

Matt 

[J.C.]

Outstanding decal work!! Looks perfect on that NMF!!  

[Nighthawk Calling 1]

6 hours ago, chuck540z3 said:

March 14/21

 

Where to begin?

 

When I first started this build my goal was to make one of the original CF-104’s from the early 60’s like the ones shown in the first pic of this thread, and while earlier versions of this Italeri kit have these decals, there are no aftermarket decals available as back-up, ever since Canuck Decals folded up their shop and their decals are OOP.  The decals in this kit and the Belcher Bits back-up decals that Rockie Yarwood kindly sent me, also OOP, are for the latest versions of the CF-104 which to me, are the least attractive scheme.  There are various schemes of CF-104’s over time and from what I can tell, these are the four main ones, although there could be others.

 

1.      Early 60’s with “RCAF” (Royal Canadian Air Force) in bold letters on the fuselage (and lower right wing), always at the front, with super detailed maple leaves on the roundels.  Bare metal finish.

2.      At some point in the mid-60’s, the maple leaves on the roundels were simplified to the ones found today, still along with “RCAF”.  These leaves can be found in both large and small versions and are fairly rare to find pics of, so were no doubt short lived.

3.      When the Canadian Forces were merged in 1968 (stupid!), the “R” was dropped and “CAF” was left, which now meant Canadian Armed Forces, which was labeled on the top of the engine intakes in both English and French.  The “CAF” on the fuselage is always on the left, rather than the front.  Still a bare metal finish.

4.      The “CAF” is dropped and “ARMED FORCES/ FORCES ARMEES” is written on both sides of the fuselage, with “CANADA” on the top of the intakes.  This is the version of decals found with this kit and the Belcher Bits version. Both bare metal and Euro camo green/grey finish- and my least favorite scheme by far.

 

Here’s a pic of the 2 sets of decals I had to begin with.  No “R” for RCAF, so it looks like I’m stuck with version #3 and #4 above and limited serial numbers.

 

 

 

 

Belcher Bits continues to sell decals for the Canadian T-33 in 1/32 scale, so I bought a set to see what was included and if I could use any of them.  Bingo!, they not only have the “RCAF” on two sheets, but they have a multitude of letters and numbers in various sizes and fonts.  Here they are on the left and lower right corner, with the CF-104 version in the top right, to show that the font size and type of "RCAF" is correct.

 

 

 

 

With these new decals, I then looked for a subject and found this rare photo, which has both “RCAF” and the modern large maple leaf roundel.  It’s a bit grainy, but I can still clearly see 12883, 12760, 12842, 12730, 12761 and then it gets too blurry to tell.  Not wanting to overuse my limited supply of numbers, just in case I wreck a decal or two, I picked the second one in line, 12760.  With the decals I have- some modified- I can get fairly close to this scheme, although exact font size is out a bit for the tail code, which is also true of the kit decals.  I also note that not only is the panel at the front of the vertical stabilizer painted grey to prevent corrosion (since the panel is magnesium) which is well known, but so is the rear upper rear cap which I bet is missed a lot.  I will make sure to do that too.

 

 

 

 

I think I’m pretty good at applying decals, mostly because I’ve experienced every problem possible and have had some disastrous results from time to time.  Fighting my way through the problems, I have come up with several solutions that can be found in a tutorial here:

 

 

How To Apply Decals

 

 

Although I’m experienced at applying decals, this stage of every build still scares the crap out of me for the following reasons:

 

1. As shown above in my tutorial, some decals are good and some are horrible.  Which of the 3 sets I have are going to give me problems?
2. I have a new metal finish and thousands of tiny decal rivets underneath.  Sanding off a problem decal and repainting is not an option!
3. How well did the X-22 clear coat seal the Alclad from decal solutions?  As shown earlier, Microsol dissolves Alclad Chrome.  Again, repainting is not an option!

 

So after decaling, here is what I found:

 

The Belcher Bits CF-104 Decals are not very good.  I needed them for the big red circles around the fuel caps (other decals sheets didn’t have them), but I had one shatter and they didn’t react to Microsol very well.  Still the fuel caps worked OK so I was glad to have them, since painting those big circles where they are located would have been a nightmare.

 

The Belcher Bits CF-133 Decals (RCAF T-33, Product BD-24) are FANTASTIC and with all the various numbers and letters, are a must have for many other modeling subjects.  They slid off the backing with ease, were strong and Microsol was not needed, unless they covered a panel line or deep fastener detail.  I just ordered another set.

 

The Kit Decals, as usual, scared me, although I noted they were printed by Cartograf, which are usually good.  They looked quite thick and I’ve never had good luck with a kit decal, which is why I try to avoid them at all costs.  Well, I can honestly say that they are also FANTASTIC!!  Although they are slow to release from the backing, once on the model you can be a bit rough with them without worrying about them tearing.  Most of them are not thick at all, reacted very well to Microsol and again, I didn’t need hardly any because they stuck so well with just water and Microset.  The stencils are also very finely detailed and you can actually read them, which is amazing with such tiny font.  They are probably the best decal stencils I have ever used- ever.  My only complaint is that the instructions for some of them are vague and with tiny little stencils, it’s hard to see where they should all go exactly.  Big tip though, cut the stencils up into smaller prices for ease of handling, because some of the long strings are quite unwieldy and who wants all that extra decal film?

 

Scary and true story that I’m still amazed by.  After doing about half the decals before a Zoom meeting that I had coming up in 15 minutes, I broke my own Rule #2 in my tutorial and decided to add one more decal as I was rushed, but this was one of the larger clear stencil decals (#10 on right intake) which can be quite tricky at the best of times due to its size and how thin it is.  Sure enough, it started to fold on itself and no amount of extra water or solution would get it to settle down.  Getting a bit desperate (and rushed), I decided to pull the whole thing off and throw it into the water to become unstuck.  This worked as usual, but then I did the unthinkable:  Rather than slip some decal backing under the big decal, I used a paintbrush to lift it instead and with the hot water, the sucker shriveled like a small raison!  I was screwed!!  With nothing to lose- and certainly no decal backups to go to- I put the decal on a flat piece of cardboard and using the paint brush again, tried to unfold the tangled mess.  Nothing would budge and I was afraid of tearing it, but then a small corner straightened out, then another and after 10 minutes, just when my Zoom meeting started, I got it fairly flat, but it was bone dry by then like a thin piece of cellophane and still a bit shriveled.   A bit shaken by my own stupidity, I set it aside for the one hour meeting, then tried to reapply it to the intake afterwards.  Shockingly, it started to conform with lots of Microset and by working out the corners with the paint brush, it actually straightened out without tearing.  Further, it stuck to the model like a champ and didn’t need a drop of Microsol!  It looks just as good and straight as the decal on the other intake.  All glue washed off, air dried for an hour and it worked like nothing bad had happened.  I am so lucky- and again amazed- but it speaks to the quality of these kit decals.

 

It took me one day to do the big decals and another full day to add all the stencils.  One problem I had was determining which stencils applied to my subject and which ones were for mostly European F-104G’s- and there are a LOT of tiny stencils!  Detailed pics of mid-60’s CF-104’s are super rare and using restored CF-104’s is not much help either, because those who restored these birds were probably using the same pics as references.  Further, I found that some of the restored Starfighters are not correct, although I will never criticize those who volunteered their time to do their best so that you and I can still see these iconic Cold War fighters.

 

So here is a bit of walkaround, to show you the decals I applied with a thin coat of X-22 to seal them in.  I need not have worried about the X-22 sealing the paint, because I had no issues with decal solutions at all.  Note that I have not done any weathering, like dirtying up the antenna patch on the fuel tank/gun door, or added some scratching and dull coat to specific areas.  This is Decal Stage Only and too glossy as a result!

 

 

 

 

This pic shows the application of all 3 sets.  Lettering and numbering are from the Belcher Bits T-33 set, gas cap circles from the BB CF-104 set and the rest are kit decals.  For the Rescue arrow which is a little bit too long, I cut it off the black on yellow placard, which was moved forward as per reference pics, but not a bad compromise with no decal sheet alternatives.  For the black bar across the gas fuel cap, I used another decal in the kit.  Note that straight on you can see the rivet decals quite easily, but from an angle they disappear into a shiny reflection, showing how low relief they really are.  One other thing I found a bit surprising is that the letters and numbers should be slightly below the center line, which is the point of the intake and yes, the upper fuel tank circle goes over the antenna panel to the left of it (DACO book, page 15).

 

 

Note how tiny those stencil markings are...

 

 

A little Microsol sucked the roundels into the wing recesses easily.

 

 

For the reference pic above of the real deal, the serial number font is a bit small, but the same size and font as later versions including the numbers of the kit decals.  Another small compromise.  Also, there are grey colored decals for the front panel with all the small stencils on it (G22 and G23), but they do not fit that panel at all!  That's why I painted the panel first, then applied generic stencils instead.  The red "Blast Line" indicator around the fuselage was also painted instead of using decals.  This is much cleaner than using decals, but a little risky to mask cleanly on a bare metal finish where any over-spray would be "not good"!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a close-up of that problem decal.  You would never know that it used to look like a raisin and was air dried!  This close-up also shows how little decal film can be seen.

 

 

 

I'm pretty certain that you would see decal film if they were on foil.  Just sayin' 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

T

hat's all Folks!  Still lots of work to do.

 

By the way, since I am nearing the finish line with this build and for those who have asked since I usually do a prop after a jet, here's my next modeling project.  Should be fun- and very, very detailed!

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

Chuck

 

Oh wow, this may take some time, Chuck can't wait to see the 2800 come to life in your hands.