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Italeri CF-104 Starfighter "Kicked up a Notch": KLP Publishing eBook now Available!


chuck540z3

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No real problem on the scratching front guys.  My little experiment above was the bare minimum of creating a scuffed metallic finish, so I will do so more aggressively on the dorsal areas and much less so down the sides.   One thing that real metallic finishes (like foil) have that paint like Alclad usually don't have, is the swirled and slightly scratched finish.  I hope to replicate this without the pain of foil.  There are some fantastic models out there using foil and I totally respect how they look from about a foot away, which is fantastic.  Close up at about 2"?  Not so much in my experience, especially with the subtle rivet detail I plan to use that has been beaten to death in this thread already.  Sorry about that, totally my fault.   :rolleyes:

 

No more from me until I have at least accomplished something constructive with this kit!  The DACO book has me changing many things on the fuselage already, and few of them are rivet related.

 

Cheers,

Chuck

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DpyKyx7.jpg

 

...from the Wings of Pegasus website.

 

This ultra-talented modeler achieves a "scratched" aluminum affect by dry brushing Mr. Color Chrome Silver over the finish coat of paint as explained in this article.

 

Rich

Edited by allthumbs
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I'd say go for both ways - a mix of coarse(r) sandpaper under the Alclad and drybrushing above it. ;) It could be the same after all, but, :) it's an extra layer of flavor. The goal is to keep the final pattern of the scratches as uneven as possible. While for the riverts - the resin ones seem just fine and yet, a mix with the goold old riveter here and there might look even better. For this plane, ''different is better''.

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Hi Chuck, just a great project!

 

I agree, the replication of the scratches on a NMF goes a big way to really give the model a realistic finish, the pristine Alclad finish always misses a bit imho.

 

I wanted to show you some pictures of a model I did last year where I experimented replicating the same things so you could weigh it up if it helps in anyway, just food for thought! It is a very small 1/72 Mirage IIIS, built really as a precursor to a 1/32 Mirage conversion using the Italeri kit I'll do someday. I wanted to trial some techniques before committing in the big scale. 1/72 has it's own problems with scale representation, my logic was, if it works in 1/72 it should easily work in 1/32. 

 

Of note on the real Mirage, the fuselage and vertical fin were really the only highly polished areas where the scratching were mostly evident, the wings were mainly matt and quite dull where the scratches were less obvious, so the technique was mostly concentrated on the hi-shine areas. I used Alclad Polished and Airframe aluminium as the base layer for the highly reflective areas, protected with Aqua gloss. Then I used Humbrol polished aluminium metalcote to dry brush a metallic grain onto the paint, doing this created the contrast in finish between the scratches and polished metal. If you click the flickr links you can get much higher res to see up close (and all the flaws!),

 

IMG_0965 copy

 

L1190643

 

 

The wings also received some blotchy type dry brushing to further break up the finish, it is subtle in the picture above.

 

The finished model,

 

L1200038

 

L1200076

 

L1200063

 

 

The 'scratches' are more evident in natural light and can become more subdued in other lighting as below. Was working in 1/72 though so everything had to be very subtle anyways for scale effect. In 1/32 I'd probably go some more with the contrast. 

 

L1200088

 

There are more pictures and WIP photos on my Flickr page if you want more pics, I don't want to hog/derail your thread more than I already have!

 

I find the high-shine Alclad works mainly with the differing reflection of the underlying gloss (assuming black primer), but also the different tone of the dry brushed Humbrol helped break up and emphasise the scratches in places. The contrast between the hi-shine untouched Alclad and the less reflective Humbrol did give a real nice representation of the scratches in the flesh. It does not have however the 3D nature of the real marks. 

 

I did try scrathing up the primer in some experiments but concluded it was too obvious and difficult in this small scale, 1/32 on the other hand it may be just perfect. IIRC I also tried scratching up the primer, then putting a gloss clear over this (micro meshed/polished) and then the Alclad which give a more subtle but noticeable scratch effect. 

 

Whilst I'm going on I might as well mention a few other things I found worked/didn't work if it is interesting. For the clear layer I tried various things but Alclad Aqua gloss was the only one which really didn't attack the Hi-shine Alclad, things like Tamiya X-22 thinned with levelling thinner give an excellent crystal clear smooth gloss, but I found the hotter thinners just slightly attacks the delicate Hi-shine Alclads enough to notice and take the edge of the finish. Aqua gloss is a royal PITA to spray though to really get a flawless finish, if you can brush it, it gives way better results, brushing a 1/32 model though would be risky business. I might try polishing up the Aqua gloss with Tamiya compound next time. Ideally you just don't want a clear coat but unless you use enamel primers for the Hi-shine Alclads, they just come off in my experience as they don't truly bite/combine into anything but a gloss enamel. 

 

Love your works Chuck, probably the most interesting Aircraft WIP threads out there on the net! If there are too many pictures here that you don't want distracting your thread please tell me and I'll remove, I just want to show the results properly of my experiments with the dry brushing for discussion purposes.

 

Cheers,

 

David

 

 

edit..A few things I forgot to mention.

 

I used Humbrol Polished Aluminium metalcote, an older tin as I'm not sure the modern stuff is so good anymore. I tried using Mr Color metalllics but found they dried too quick on the brush and also damaged the Alclad finish on tests. Water based metallics like the new Vallejo versions may be the best bet but could also dry too quick on the brush, I didn't have any to try at the time. The enamel gave enough time to dry brush properly and didn't damage the finish, it did take however maybe a week to go 'off' fully before you could handle the model properly. Replicating the scratches in this scale was difficult for sure, in 1/32 however with the larger canvas and scale factor working for you I think you could get much better results. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Marine104
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I'd be very careful with "real" scratches - it may look like bad surface preparation. I'd vote for the drybrush option. I additiona, I don't think there are any deep scratches on the real a/c - it's more like little scuffs or the surface being "polished" irregularly by mechanics moving on the aircraft and working on panels in my opinion. 

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December 8/20

 

Thank you everyone for the finishing and rivet tips.  I'm pretty sure I have figured out how I am going to do this, but that's still a long way down the road.

 

Going through the fuselage parts when compared to the DACO book, there are a number of issues.  No surprise there, so I’ve started to fix them fairly methodically, starting on the front port side.  Here is the game plan:

 

-        Fix obvious errors, but don’t go crazy on stuff that few will notice as errors without a reference photo in front of them

-        Major fastener detail will be enhanced or created, while rivet detail will be either HGW raised rivets or conventional depressions (TBD)

-        About half of the major rivet detail will be created.  There is just too many to get them all.

-        Try to document Before/After changes, but not all of them.  Again, too darn many to worry about

 

So, here’s a few of the issues that I have found on this front quadrant so far.  What I initially thought was circular detail on the bottom, turns out to be dreaded pin marks.

 

 

6hDgph.jpg

 

 

The navigation light, on the starboard side this time, is way off center.

 

 

dnojzR.jpg

 

 

The main fuel cap is oval instead of circular and a bit of a mess.

 

 

OBQFFL.jpg

 

 

The recess for the AOA vane shouldn’t have all those fasteners around it.  Same for the circular panel above it.

 

 

mYbn1H.jpg

 

 

So let’s start fixing a few things.  Since most CF-104’s in the late 60’s/early 70’s didn’t have a gun, I covered the opening with a shroud that is Part 4A, but not mentioned in the instructions.  It is recessed a bit too much compared to the real deal and was hard to fit without lots of trimming, but I’m calling it “good enough”.  The gun doors, however, don’t really fit at all if you want them to be strong against the fuselage.

 

 

yFRSUr.jpg

 

 

To fix this, I applied thin strips of Styrene to the interior of the gun compartment:  0.5mm along the top and 0.25mm along the sides.

 

 

lmY1jW.jpg

 

 

The doors still had a few gaps around them, so I oozed in Tamiya Extra thin cement around them to help glue to the fuselage and close the gaps at the same time.  I will re-scribe new panel lines once the glue has had a few days to dry and harden.

 

 

DJ9cB9.jpg

 

 

The AOA recess was cleaned up and an external ring was scribed, while the circular panel above it (pic is upside down) had all the rivets around it removed and 4 fasteners applied within.  The AOA vane is only dry fitted and a hole was also drilled below the canopy release handle on the right.  On the left, I added a little rectangular panel I noticed was present on the real deal.

 

 

zYYx7i.jpg

 

 

The fuel cap was removed and a brass replacement from my stash was inserted into a recess I made to make it flush (hard to do cleanly!).  Seemingly random fastener detail was then added according to references.

 

 

AIkeWi.jpg

 

 

One of the fuel pump doors on the bottom has fastener detail around the door, when it should be within the door.  Since the door was a bit too small already, I filled it and created a new door around the fasteners instead.  Still some cleanup to do around the edges....

 

 

ni0fEB.jpg

 

 

And even though it’s on the other side that I haven’t got to yet and was driving me crazy!, I filled in the navigation light surround and scribed a new one that is more centered.

 

 

MiDnx2.jpg

 

 

To create some of this and future detail, here’s what I use to help me.  Over the years I have picked up Hasegawa “Try Tools” and Lion Roar templates, but I have no idea where you can buy them today.

 

 

pTKnWa.jpg

 

 

And my Go-To tools of rivet rulers, needle in a pin vice and a variety of scribers.  The black ones in the middle are Trumpeter, with both an older duller version and a new and sharper version, hence the masking tape to identify which is which.

 

 

XpLvtM.jpg

 

 

 And for the big fasteners, my handy beading tool which is called a "Mega Tool" that I bought from UMM.  These circular heads are super hard and will not scratch or dent under normal use.

 

 

o096Aw.jpg

 

 

There, I actually did some real modeling in this thread!  I will probably spend the next week or two getting the other parts of the fuselage halves cleaned up, then I’ll attack the installation of the Black Box resin cockpit.  As mentioned earlier, I am determined to fit this sucker in!

 

Cheers,

Chuck

Edited by chuck540z3
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  • chuck540z3 changed the title to Italeri CF-104 Starfighter "Kicked up a Notch": Dec 8, Fuselage Edits
1 hour ago, Finn said:

Good start Chuck, some walkaround pics of a painted CF-104 are here that show some good details:

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235012227-lockheed-canadair-cf-104-starfighter/

 

Jari

 

Thanks Jari.  The cockpit photos are especially helpful!

 

Cheers,

Chuck

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2 hours ago, Marcel111 said:

Loving your work already... and boy does that kit look rough!

 

Marcel

 

Thanks Marcel.  Yes, the kit is quite rough, but I knew that already before I started.  I take comfort in the fact that there are some really nice builds of this kit out there, so it can turn out pretty good if I take my time.   ^_^  I'm shooting for a 75% corrected model.  I'll never fix all of the inaccuracies, but if I can build a decent Trumpeter A-10C, I can build anything!

 

Cheers,

Chuck

Edited by chuck540z3
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