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Italeri CF-104 Starfighter "Kicked up a Notch": KLP Publishing eBook now Available!


chuck540z3

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Good advice Chuck, thanks for taking the time to spell it out for everyone.  Painting can be a bit like black magic for some. I guess it's a reason why good auto body guys are well reimbursed for their skills on 1:1 cars or even restoring airplanes. Always a pleasure to watch you remove any flaws from a kit to achieve that perfect fit and finish.

-Peter

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15 hours ago, chuck540z3 said:

8.  Use a relatively large needled airbrush of about 0.3mm or larger at a flowing pressure a bit higher than normal, of about 12-13 psi.  This keeps the paint moving without sputters.  While my 0.18mm airbrush works with ultra-thin MRP lacquer paints very well, it chokes and sputters with Tamiya lacquers, unless I really make them thin.

Chuck, do you pretty much "bomb" it on?  Or are you more discerning with the pattern?  My thought would be to really open up the nozzle and let it fly with as wide a pattern as possible further from the model, but close enough to keep it wet.

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Thanks Guys!  If you have any questions, fire away.

 

15 minutes ago, Huey195thAHC said:

Chuck, do you pretty much "bomb" it on?  Or are you more discerning with the pattern?  My thought would be to really open up the nozzle and let it fly with as wide a pattern as possible further from the model, but close enough to keep it wet.

 

Short answer is no.  Like all airbrush painting, it's a lot of trial and error with viscosity of the paint, pressure of the air flow, humidity, temperature, etc.  The only way I can describe it is to put down a bit more paint at slightly higher pressure than you normally would with thinner paints- maybe 10-20% more of both.  If the air pressure is too high, the turbulence will cause dusting of paint particles some distance from where you are spraying, while too low will cause sputtering.

 

The other tip (just added above) is to spray continuously as much as possible, so that the tip of the airbrush never gets dry allowing clogging and resultant sputtering.  Always spray away from the model first to unclog the nozzle before directing the paint towards the model.

 

A few more examples....

 

FqNkqr.jpg

 

 

O9LCZp.jpg

 

 

gM3Raw.jpg

 

Cheers,

Chuck

Edited by chuck540z3
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Feb 17/21

 

 

Just for fun I experimented with a few things, like the Alclad paint color and the HGW decal rivets.  Although I have all of the Alclad Aluminum colors including Polished Aluminum, some of the panels on these Starfighters look almost like chrome to me.

 

 

NHkm6M.jpg

 

 

So I sprayed the tip tanks with Alclad Chrome and I really like what I see.

 

 

bNQPJT.jpg

 

oaQktc.jpg

 

 

While beautiful, there are a few problems with this lacquer paint and high shine as follows:

 

  1. The “High Shine” colors like Chrome and Polished Aluminum do not respond to masking tape very well, sometimes with paint lift.
  2. They sometimes don’t respond to decal solutions very well either.  Both of these cautions are from the Alclad website.
  3. Any clearcoat to protect the paint knocks down the shine a lot.  I have experimented with this using at least 8 different clear coats, including two different Alclad clearcoats, and they all dull the shine.  The best of the bunch was Tamiya Acrylic X-22, but even it dulls the shiny look enough that I’d rather not use it unless I have to.
  4. If you think a smooth gloss black coat of paint reveals 5 times more imperfections than a flat coat, a high shine metallic coat reveals even more.  Slightly rough sanding sticks out like crazy.
  5. Removing crap from a metallic coat is hard to do without leaving scratches.  While the crap will be gone, the effects of the removal often remain.

 

Let’s move on to my next experiment with the HGW decal rivets I recently received from UMM.  To recap, the bare metal finishes on CF-104’s reveal many, many rivets that are both obvious and numerous like this.

 

 

OarH6e.jpg

 

 

To replicate something close to these flush fasteners, we have two choices:  Depressions, like most rivet detail on models, or raised fasteners, which are often too high.  Since I need a LOT of them, I experimented with a Rosie the Riveter wheel tool and some HGW decal rivets, albeit slightly raised, that I had in my stash.  While wheeled rivet tools can do a great job, they can sometimes take on a life of their own and go off course, creating a mess that’s hard to fix, especially after paint.  They also won't go into tight places, so you need to recreate more rivets by hand.  Leaning towards the HGW rivets, I ordered these, which are 0.25 mm wide and 0.8 mm apart, or close to 1” apart at 1/32 scale, which is good enough to me.  While HGW makes these rivets a bit tighter at 0.2 mm wide and 0.6 mm apart, they are a bit too tight and appear as straight lines, which is not the effect I’m looking for.

 

 

KHB973.jpg

 

 

So I gave them a try, with initial disastrous results!  All the little decal rivets fell off in the water and there was no film holding them.  Checking a second pack of decal rivets, I figured out the problem.  These decals are covered with a sort of tissue paper to protect them, but also a clear film that holds the decals in place.  When I took off the tissue paper on the first pack, the film came with it for some reason, which has never happened to me before- and I’ve used HGW water slide decals many times.  I replaced the clear film back onto the rivet decals, but the bond has been compromised and not all of the rivets stick to the film, so I will use this damaged pack for subsequent repairs.  Lesson learned:  Be careful how you remove the tissue paper!

 

Anyway with the bulged landing gear doors painted that I’m no longer going to use, I had a couple of good test mules for the rivets and the Alclad Chrome paint.  The second pack of decals worked flawlessly as I arranged 6 strings of them in roughly the width I’ll be using on the sides of this model.  After letting the decals dry overnight, I gently removed the decal film, then wiped the part with water on a rag to remove any residual glue left behind.

 

 

sqYee0.jpg

 

 

While it’s hard to see in this small photo, the decal rivets are almost completely flat and it’s hard to feel them as raised at all.  A rivet wheel would also have a hard time on these curved surfaces.   If you can imagine this CF-104 covered with these rivets from head to toe and then painted in Chrome, I think this will look awesome!

 

KHGQmu.jpg

 

I have already applied masking tape to this part, burnished it down, and pulled it off to see if any paint or decals would come off.  While a tiny bit of the Chrome paint did pull off, it isn’t really noticeable and the rivets stayed put.  So far, so good.

 

So here’s the painting and decaling plan, subject to lots of changes if things don’t work out.

 

  1. Apply many, many decal rivet chains to mostly the sides of the fuselage and other places they are prevalent in reference pics
  2. After masking off black areas, like the nose and intakes, I will paint the entire model in Chrome
  3. After this paint dries for a day and likely after a few paint repairs, I will de-tack some masking tape and isolate several panels and paint them different shades of Aluminum and even Stainless Steel to provide realism and contrast
  4. I have several shades of Metaliner water based metallic washes, that I will use to slightly weather and “scratch” the paint by dry brushing instead of actually scratching the paint (as suggested by a few of you earlier).  Dry brushing is not only easy, it’s reversible and I’m dying to try a few more colors of these washes that I used on my Tempest build.
  5. Full decals, with my fingers crossed that the Chrome can take the Microsol needed to settle them down.  I think it can.
  6. No clear coat of any kind, but if I have to for whatever reason, I’ll use X-22 as a last resort.

 

While these decals rivets will take a long time to apply, I am very optimistic that they will look killer on the finished model and really make it look, "Kicked Up a Notch".

 :rolleyes:

 

Cheers,

Chuck

Edited by chuck540z3
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  • chuck540z3 changed the title to Italeri CF-104 Starfighter "Kicked up a Notch": Feb 17/21, Alclad Chrome and HGW Rivets

The Starfighter is looking awesome Chuck, but in black and with the wings taped, I think it looks more like the X-15! Either way it’ll be awesome when done. Also I just received my latest copy of Fine Scale Modeller in the post, which features a very familiar black F-5 aggressor, congratulations!!:clap2:

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Superb and equally informative modelling Chuck, that gloss black base is just unbelievable straight out of the AB with no polishing! 

 

I've used the 'Hi-Shine' Alclads a few times now and by trail and error I found leaving some for a long cure, over a week or even two, made them much more bullet proof and resistant to masking, no marks whatsoever to which I was pleasantly surprised. Mind, this was with the most durable shades, Polished Aluminium and Polished Steel and over a softer gloss black Humbrol enamel base (the Alclad bonds with the slow curing enamel apparently) and not hard lacquer. I'm not sure this would help however with Chrome or Airframe Aluminium since they are even more fragile. The Airframe aluminium I've used seems to come off just looking at it. 

 

Also, over an uncoated Hi-shine surface, even the relatively weak Microscale products when I used them, just left marks so I had to go on to clear coat before and after decals for protection. Really interested to see how you avoid this annoyance. 

 

Finally, what do you thin X-22 with over the Hi-shine if needed? I like the surface quality that X-22 + levelling thinner gives, however I found the lacquer thinner slightly interacted with the Hi-shine (it is soo thin)  and the undercoating lacquer gloss black (GX in my case) when spraying on a wet enough layer, maybe with X-20 it works better IDK. I assume you have tried Aqua Gloss which doesn't react with the paint at all given it is water based but it is very hard to spray without any orange peel, plus it gives this 'plastic' (best way I can describe it) type clear which is questionable for the NMF. Clear coating Hi-shine Alclad is still an unsolved riddle for me!

 

The rivets look very promising, I think the best solution for the goal. I've tried this briefly but directly over the Alclad (well with a clear coat to protect against decal solutions) and found it difficult to get the consistency as they didn't stick so well, doing it on the gloss black and spraying the Alclad over top is a much smarter and durable way of doing it! Eager to see how this turns out over the model and will try this out.

 

I blame your build for luring me into just starting an early NMF Luftwaffe TF-104G! :D 

 

Sorry for all the Qs but keep up the fantastic work! 

 

David

 

 

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Black Magic painting - looks terriffic!  Like Marine 104's post above, I seem to recall that Alclad Chrome would be best applied over an enamel base coat.  What about using Future as a clear coat over the Chrome?  Being water based it shouldn't react with the paint.  While it will dull the finish slightly, it will make the model look more scale like in shine perhaps?  I did once attempt to foil a Hasegawa 1:72 Starfighter, and while it looked tremendously shiny (the original aircraft was highly polished too), the model appeared far too shiny.  The HGW rivets under Alclad paint look great and I think captures the effect seen in the photo.

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Thanks Guys!

 

3 hours ago, Marine104 said:

Superb and equally informative modelling Chuck, that gloss black base is just unbelievable straight out of the AB with no polishing! 

 

I've used the 'Hi-Shine' Alclads a few times now and by trail and error I found leaving some for a long cure, over a week or even two, made them much more bullet proof and resistant to masking, no marks whatsoever to which I was pleasantly surprised. Mind, this was with the most durable shades, Polished Aluminium and Polished Steel and over a softer gloss black Humbrol enamel base (the Alclad bonds with the slow curing enamel apparently) and not hard lacquer. I'm not sure this would help however with Chrome or Airframe Aluminium since they are even more fragile. The Airframe aluminium I've used seems to come off just looking at it. 

 

Also, over an uncoated Hi-shine surface, even the relatively weak Microscale products when I used them, just left marks so I had to go on to clear coat before and after decals for protection. Really interested to see how you avoid this annoyance. 

 

Finally, what do you thin X-22 with over the Hi-shine if needed? I like the surface quality that X-22 + levelling thinner gives, however I found the lacquer thinner slightly interacted with the Hi-shine (it is soo thin)  and the undercoating lacquer gloss black (GX in my case) when spraying on a wet enough layer, maybe with X-20 it works better IDK. I assume you have tried Aqua Gloss which doesn't react with the paint at all given it is water based but it is very hard to spray without any orange peel, plus it gives this 'plastic' (best way I can describe it) type clear which is questionable for the NMF. Clear coating Hi-shine Alclad is still an unsolved riddle for me!

 

The rivets look very promising, I think the best solution for the goal. I've tried this briefly but directly over the Alclad (well with a clear coat to protect against decal solutions) and found it difficult to get the consistency as they didn't stick so well, doing it on the gloss black and spraying the Alclad over top is a much smarter and durable way of doing it! Eager to see how this turns out over the model and will try this out.

 

I blame your build for luring me into just starting an early NMF Luftwaffe TF-104G! :D 

 

Sorry for all the Qs but keep up the fantastic work! 

 

David

 

 

2 hours ago, jenshb said:

Black Magic painting - looks terriffic!  Like Marine 104's post above, I seem to recall that Alclad Chrome would be best applied over an enamel base coat.  What about using Future as a clear coat over the Chrome?  Being water based it shouldn't react with the paint.  While it will dull the finish slightly, it will make the model look more scale like in shine perhaps?  I did once attempt to foil a Hasegawa 1:72 Starfighter, and while it looked tremendously shiny (the original aircraft was highly polished too), the model appeared far too shiny.  The HGW rivets under Alclad paint look great and I think captures the effect seen in the photo.

 

 

Lots of questions, but all good ones that might be answered by one of my experiments I did 5 years ago on my P-38L build.  As mentioned above I've tried 8 different clear coats over Chrome, so here's the results on 4 of them, including the recommended Alclad Aqua Gloss (ALC 600), Future/Pledge, Modelmaster Sealer for Metalizer, and Tamiya Acrylic X-22, which I always thin with Tamiya lacquer thinner, about 1/3 thinner to 2/3 X-22.

 

vX016n.jpg

 

 

I painted two spare F-4 intakes with Chrome, then applied the various clear coats, with the following results.  Note the middle area did not get a clear coat, to show the differences.

 

 

RgdDDb.jpg

 

 

As you can see, they all dulled the shine and I found the Alclad Aqua Gloss to be horrible to spray and did the worst job, although it's tough to see in this pic.  In any case, I actually threw it out!

 

Here is my model with just chrome and no sealer.  Note the front cowling on the lower right as a reference.

 

 

vlRt0z.jpg

 

 

And after a coat of X-22 to seal in the decals.  Not bad, but not as good as the plain Chrome above.

 

 

u5CK3e.jpg

 

 

This was the same for the rear titanium panels on my F-15C Eagle.  The X-22 helped with the decals, but it also killed some of the shine, which was a shame.

 

So I think this will all boil down to the decals vs. the Chrome look.  By trimming the decals to remove as much film as possible, I may be able to get away with no clear coat at all which is my new Plan A.  If the decals jump out and the edges of them are too obvious, or Microsol discolors the Chrome paint, I have no choice but to clear coat the model with X-22 on any panel with a decal, which is most of them, as Plan B.  Of course I will be using experimental mules for decals before I commit to the model.

 

Oh, and one last comment on using an enamel base vs. lacquer.  I used to use Krylon Gloss Black enamel as a primer coat for Alclad and it works great, but it dries slower and is harder to use than Tamiya lacquer.  I have had no bonding issues with any Alclad color, including Chrome, so that's good enough for me.

 

Cheers,

Chuck

Edited by chuck540z3
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Hi Chuck,

 

loving the tutorials (even in my 6th decade, I am learning new things, so thank you).

 

I discovered something (by accident) back in 2004 which may help you, but may require more experimentation on your part?

 

As an experiment of my own, I wanted to make a model OOB that could be used to try my first attempts at covering a model in normal kitchen grade metal foil. For this, I chose the Revell 1/72 P-47D Thunderbolt kit - the reasoning being that if I could successfully completely foil that kit, then logically, there should be nothing else in any scale that I could not foil!

 

Anyhow, it was successful, which was good:

 

post-596-1185754180.jpg

 

The (accidental) discovery occurred whilst I was applying the kit decals to the foil. I used Micro-set and Micro-sol to apply the decals, which worked well, but the edges of some of the decal film picked up dirt or looked a bit scruffy. Not knowing any better, I used a cloth damped with white spirit to clean them and found (initially) to my horror that it dissolved and removed the decal film completely! The discovery bit was that it actually left the decal design and colours intact on the model - it only removed the decal varnish film.

 

This now left me with a model which had decals applied that looked like they had been painted on (I think that the Micro-set and Micro-sol helped here) the bare aluminium with no decal carrier film in sight! (I used a mix of acrylic matt and gloss varnish to provide a satin finish to protect the decals).

 

I don't know if this would work with other brands of decal or finish, but I would love to know?

 

Good luck

 

Derek

Edited by Derek B
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Thanks Derek for the tip, but thinking about it, white spirits would eat the Alclad without a clear coat, which what I'm trying to avoid.  BTW, your Thunderbolt is beautiful!

 

I have no fears of using decals on Alclad, but only if they are clear coated with something like X-22.  What they will look like without a clear coat is my concern.

 

FYI, here are some close ups of the decals on the P-38 using X-22, both before and after decals.  You would be hard pressed to see decal film unless you look really hard, like the top of "993" in the second pic:

 

 

rms6HG.jpg

 

 

A6cvsR.jpg

 

Cheers,

Chuck

Edited by chuck540z3
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I think Tigger made the same discovery about white spirit dissolving decal film - in his case it was Tamiya decal film for an F-117.  I tried to do the same on a couple of decals from the Tamiya F-14, and while it removed the decal film after a bit of rubbing, it also removed some of the inks.  Luckily it was an experiment with surplus decals:)

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