Hasegawa 109F-4 to F-2 conversion..

[thierry laurent]

Mermet's book is still the best source to differentiate the versions from the Friedrich. There have been at least three progressively upgraded versions of the book (I've them).

[Dennis7423]

I'm definitely in.

 

- Dennis S.

   Thornton, CO USA

[LSP_Mike]

The old Monogram Close-up was the first book I remember to try to define the F series of aircraft.  The book by Prien and Rodeike is, I think one of the more comprehensive studies out there, and Ritgers 109 modellers Datafiles are full of good data as well.  Am I missing something ?

[D.B. Andrus]

7 hours ago, nmayhew said:

 

thank you!

 

the prop info is exactly the sort thing i find interesting

 

definitely interested in a conversion if you do one 

 

slightly dubious of the book you mention given its date of publication - i imagine the info on the Erla Gustavs will be incorrect? I had thought that we only truly sorted out the cowl shapes on those things relatively recently, but maybe i got that bit wrong?

 

Mermet was the first I know of to put G-10 cowl clarification in print. I first read about it in Luftwaffe Verband in January 1998.

 

Thierry would have more complete information.

 

Cheers,

Damian

[pvanroy]

The essential differences between the F-2 and F-4 were the engine, and engine cannon. The F-2 used a DB 601 N engine with an MG 151/15 cannon, whereas the F-4 used a DB 601 E with an MG 151/20. However, over the course of production, a number of further differences accumulated between both subtypes - I've tried to list the most significant here.

 

Engine

F-2: Daimler-Benz DB 601 N

F-4: Daimler-Benz DB 601 E

This difference is externally not visible.

 

Engine Cannon:

F-2: Mauser MG 151/15, 15.1 mm calibre

F-4: Mauser MG 151/20, 20 mm calibre

This difference is externally not visible.

 

Propeller

At the start of production, both the F-2 and F-4 used the same prop with VDM 9-12007-10 prop blades. The F-4/Z introduced the broader VDM 9-12004.10 prop blades, which were then standardised for the entire F-4 production. Older airframes could be retrofitted with the broader prop blades without problem; this was mostly done to F-4 machines produced before standardisation on the wider prop, but some F-2 also received the broader blades as an upgrade.

 

Supercharger intake

At the start of production, both the F-2 and F-4 used the same narrow, tubular intake. The larger supercharger intake was introduced on the F-4 trop and F-4/Z. This was done in part to increase air flow to the engine, but also to allow fitting of the Italian dust filter to the trop intake. Subsequently, the enlarged supercharger intake was standardised for the entire F-4 production. Some F-2 machines were apparently also converted to trop standard, which would have required retrofitting the larger supercharger intake to mount the dust filter.

As already pointed out, some very early F-2 machines had the supercharger angled slightly downward; however, the majority of machines had it mounted parallel to the longitudinal axis. In addition, it's worth pointing out the the 50 F-1 machines built by WNF had a rectangular supercharger intake (Messerschmitt had tested at least seven or eight different supercharger intake configurations during the development of the F-series).

 

Oil cooler

At the start of production, both the F-2 and F-4 used the same small oil radiator. The F-4 trop and F-4/Z had increased cooling requirements, and introduced the larger Fö 870 oil cooler. This was subsequently standardised across the F-4 series.

 

Exhaust cover

The F series introduced a metal cover over the left-side exhaust row to prevent exhaust fumes from being sucked into the supercharger. However, as pointed out earlier, some very early machines missed this cover. 

 

Armour glass

Both the F-2 and F-4 could fit an external appliqué armour glass panel onto the windshield, similar to the E-series. However, in March 1941, it was planned for the F-4 to use an internally mounted armour glass panel instead. The mounting was different from the armour glass in the G-series: in the F-4, the internal armour glass was mounted directly onto the windscreen frame, and replaced the unarmoured windscreen pane. However, only few photographic examples of this internal armour glass mounting are known, so it was probably not very widespread.

 

Windscreen spray

The F-4 introduced tubing that allowed fuel to be sprayed onto the windscreen to flush away oil and other dirt.

 

Seat

Most F aircraft used a seat bucket as seen on the G-series. However, some early production F-2 aircraft had a full seat similar - but not identical! - to the seat of the E-series.

 

Wing mounting bolt cover

Most F airframes had a crease in the wing fillet to accommodate the mounting bolt of the wing, similar to the later G-series. However, some earlier machines had a teardrop-shaped cover over the mounting bolt - comparable, but not identical to that found on the E-series. This type of cover seems to be most prevalent on earlier machines, but is also in evidence on Horst Carganico's F-4/Z W.Nr. 10132. I haven't looked into this, but the difference in mounting bolt cover/wing fillet may be associated with specific production blocks / manufacturer.

 

Position lights

The F-series used uncovered position lights on the wing tips. However, during the production of the F-4, plexiglass covers for the lights were introduced, and these were also retrofitted to many earlier built F-4s.

 

Gear wells

The F-4 introduced the rounded gear well; on the F-2, the angular gear wells were still in use. It seems, however, that a number of F-2 were also retrofitted with the rounded openings (this essentially entailed simply fitting two pieces of sheet metal, so it was an easy thing to do).

 

Tail reinforcements

After some accidents where early F-series machines lost their tails due to resonance coupling with the engine, four external metal tail stiffeners were introduced to obviate this problem. These stiffeners were present on all F-2 machines, and were also applied to early F-4 aircraft. During the production of the F-4, the construction of the tail was improved with added internal reinforcements, so later F-4 machines dispensed with the external stiffeners. However, near the very end of F-4 production, these reinforcements make a come back, due to a number of older airframes being rebuilt to F-4 standard - but without receiving the improved tail sections with internal bracing.

 

That's about all I can think of for the moment, but I may have missed a couple things - if I think of anything else, I'll update. Also, for those interested, a list of Werknummern / manufacturers for the F-series:

 

F-1

MTT Regensburg - W.Nr. 5621-5757 (137 aircraft) - October 1940 - February 1941

WNF - W.Nr. 6601-6650 (49 aircraft out of 50 planned) - November 1940 - January 1941

 

F-2

Arado - W. Nr. 5401-5558 (158 aircraft) - February 1941 - May 1941

MTT Regensburg - W.Nr. 5758-5786 (30 aircraft) - March 1941 - April 1941

WNF - W.Nr. 6651 -6822 (169 aircraft) - January 1941 - April 1941

Erla - W. Nr. 8078 - 8266 (189 aircraft) - February 1941 - May 1941

Erla - W.Nr. 8303 - 8332 (30 aircraft) - May 1941 - June 1941

MTT Regensburg - W.Nr. 8107 - 8999 (76 aircraft) - April 1941 - May 1941

MTT Regensburg - W.Nr. 9153 - 9248 (122 aircraft) - June 1941 - September 1941

Arado - W.Nr. 9535 - 9734 (200 aircraft) - June 1941 - August 1941

AGO - W.Nr. 12601 - 12978 (378 aircraft) - October 1940 - June 1941

 

F-3

WNF - W.Nr. 4780 - 4799 (15 aircraft) - May 1941 - June 1941

 

F-4

WNF - W.Nr. 7001 - 7250 (250 F-4) - May 1941 - August 1941

WNF - W.Nr. 7251 - 7660 (410 F-4/Z) - September 1941 - December 1941

Erla  - W.Nr. 8267-8302 (36 F-4) - June 1941

Erla - W.Nr. 8333 - 8399 (67 F-4) - June 1941 - July 1941

Erla - W.Nr. 8400 - 8806 (55 F-4/Z, 325 F-4 trop, 5 F-4/R2, 5 F-4/R3) - July 1941 - December 1941

Erla - W.Nr.  10001 - 10285 (251 F-4 trop, 29 F-4/R3, 1 F-4/R4, 1 F-4/R8) - January 1942 - May 1942

WNF - W.Nr. 13001 - 13390 (134 F-4/Z, 240 F-4/R1) - December 1941 - April 1942

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by pvanroy
Added F-3 W.Nr.

[rafju]

On 11/28/2020 at 1:39 AM, D.B. Andrus said:

...would anyone be interested. Since F-2's are as rare as hens teeth, I have the parts to make the conversion set.

 

Please post your yea or nay here.

 

Cheers,

Damian

Yeah! count me in please.

Thanks

[D.B. Andrus]

50 minutes ago, pvanroy said:

The essential differences between the F-2 and F-4 were the engine, and engine cannon. The F-2 used a DB 601 N engine with an MG 151/15 cannon, whereas the F-4 used a DB 601 E with an MG 151/20. However, over the course of production, a number of further differences accumulated between both subtypes - I've tried to list the most significant here.

 

Engine

F-2: Daimler-Benz DB 601 N

F-4: Daimler-Benz DB 601 E

This difference is externally not visible.

 

Engine Cannon:

F-2: Mauser MG 151/15, 15.1 mm calibre

F-4: Mauser MG 151/20, 20 mm calibre

This difference is externally not visible.

 

Propeller

At the start of production, both the F-2 and F-4 used the same prop with VDM 9-12007-10 prop blades. The F-4/Z introduced the broader VDM 9-12004.10 prop blades, which were then standardised for the entire F-4 production. Older airframes could be retrofitted with the broader prop blades without problem; this was mostly done to F-4 machines produced before standardisation on the wider prop, but some F-2 also received the broader blades as an upgrade.

 

Supercharger intake

At the start of production, both the F-2 and F-4 used the same narrow, tubular intake. The larger supercharger intake was introduced on the F-4 trop and F-4/Z. This was done in part to increase air flow to the engine, but also to allow fitting of the Italian dust filter to the trop intake. Subsequently, the enlarged supercharger intake was standardised for the entire F-4 production. Some F-2 machines were apparently also converted to trop standard, which would have required retrofitting the larger supercharger intake to mount the dust filter.

As already pointed out, some very early F-2 machines had the supercharger angled slightly downward; however, the majority of machines had it mounted parallel to the longitudinal axis. In addition, it's worth pointing out the the 50 F-1 machines built by WNF had a rectangular supercharger intake (Messerschmitt had tested at least seven or eight different supercharger intake configurations during the development of the F-series).

 

Oil cooler

At the start of production, both the F-2 and F-4 used the same small oil radiator. The F-4/Trop and F-4/Z had increased cooling requirements, and introduced the larger Fö 870 oil cooler. This was subsequently standardised across the F-4 series.

 

Exhaust cover

The F series introduced a metal cover over the left-side exhaust row to prevent exhaust fumes from being sucked into the supercharger. However, as pointed out earlier, some very early machines missed this cover. 

 

Armour glass

Both the F-2 and F-4 could fit an external appliqué armour glass panel onto the windshield, similar to the E-series. However, in March 1941, it was planned for the F-4 to use an internally mounted armour glass panel instead. The mounting was different from the armour glass in the G-series: in the F-4, the internal armour glass was mounted directly onto the windscreen frame, and replaced the unarmoured windscreen pane. However, only few photographic examples of this internal armour glass mounting are known, so it was probably not very widespread.

 

Windscreen spray

The F-4 introduced tubing that allowed fuel to be sprayed onto the windscreen to flush away oil and other dirt.

 

Seat

Most F aircraft used a seat bucket as seen on the G-series. However, some early production F-2 aircraft had a full seat similar - but not identical! - to the seat of the E-series.

 

Wing mounting bolt cover

Most F airframes had a crease in the wing fillet to accommodate the mounting bolt of the wing, similar to the later G-series. However, some earlier machines had a teardrop-shaped cover over the mounting bolt - comparable, but not identical to that found on the E-series. This type of cover seems to be most prevalent on earlier machines, but is also in evidence on Horst Carganico's F-4/Z W.Nr. 10132. I haven't looked into this, but the difference in mounting bolt cover/wing fillet may be associated with specific production blocks / manufacturer.

 

Position lights

The F-series used uncovered position lights on the wing tips. However, during the production of the F-4, plexiglass covers for the lights were introduced, and these were also retrofitted to many earlier built F-4s.

 

Gear wells

The F-4 introduced the rounded gear well; on the F-2, the angular gear wells were still in use. It seems, however, that a number of F-2 were also retrofitted with the rounded openings (this essentially entailed simply fitting two pieces of sheet metal, so it was an easy thing to do).

 

Tail reinforcements

After some accidents where early F-series machines lost their tails due to resonance coupling with engine, four external metal tail stiffeners were introduced to obviate this problem. This stiffeners were present on all F-2 machines, and were also applied to early F-4 aircraft. During the production of the F-4, the construction of the tail was improved with added internal reinforcements, so later F-4 machines dispensed with the external stiffeners. However, near the very end of F-4 production, these reinforcements make a come back, due to a number of older airframes being rebuilt to F-4 standard - but without receiving the improved tail sections with internal bracing.

 

That's about all I can think of for the moment, but I may have missed a couple things - if I think of anything else, I'll update. Also, for those interested, a list of Werknummern / manufacturers for the F-series:

 

F-1

MTT Regensburg - W.Nr. 5621-5757 (137 aircraft) - October 1940 - February 1941

WNF - W.Nr. 6601-6650 (49 aircraft out of 50 planned) - November 1940 - January 1941

 

F-2

Arado - W. Nr. 5401-5558 (158 aircraft) - February 1941 - May 1941

MTT Regensburg - W.Nr. 5758-5786 (30 aircraft) - March 1941 - April 1941

WNF - W.Nr. 6651 -6822 (169 aircraft) - January 1941 - April 1941

Erla - W. Nr. 8078 - 8266 (189 aircraft) - February 1941 - May 1941

Erla - W.Nr. 8303 - 8332 (30 aircraft) - May 1941 - June 1941

MTT Regensburg - W.Nr. 8107 - 8999 (76 aircraft) - April 1941 - May 1941

MTT Regensburg - W.Nr. 9153 - 9248 (122 aircraft) - June 1941 - September 1941

Arado - W.Nr. 9535 - 9734 (200 aircraft) - June 1941 - August 1941

AGO - W.Nr. 12601 - 12978 (378 aircraft) - October 1940 - June 1941

 

F-4

WNF - W.Nr. 7001 - 7250 (250 F-4) - May 1941 - August 1941

WNF - W.Nr. 7251 - 7660 (410 F-4/Z) - September 1941 - December 1941

Erla  - W.Nr. 8267-8302 (36 F-4) - June 1941

Erla - W.Nr. 8333 - 8399 (67 F-4) - June 1941 - July 1941

Erla - W.Nr. 8400 - 8806 (55 F-4/Z, 325 F-4 trop, 5 F-4/R2, 5 F-4/R3) - July 1941 - December 1941

Erla - W.Nr.  10001 - 10285 (251 F-4 trop, 29 F-4/R3, 1 F-4/R4, 1 F-4/R8) - January 1942 - May 1942

WNF - W.Nr. 13001 - 13390 (134 F-4/Z, 240 F-4/R1) - December 1941 - April 1942

 

 

 

Thanks for a more complete rundown on the F series. Very well done.

 

Cheers,

Damian

[pvanroy]

38 minutes ago, Jennings Heilig said:

Speaking of Bf109F references, does anyone have this one, and how is it?  Worth $53??

 

Mermet & Ehrengardt (2016) certainly is one of the better and more current general references on the Bf 109, so I would recommend it. If you can get it for $53, I'd go for it, as I believe it's out of print and I've seen some rather silly amounts being asked for it. Mermet's main research focus are the later G and K series (he was indeed the one to first document the different cowling variations associated with the DB 605 AS and D engines), and the book is particularly good for those; coverage of early versions is a bit less good. Personally, I was a bit disappointed to see the section on the 109 H hadn't been updated from Mermet's earlier articles on the subject with new information brought to light by Nick Beale and others on this elusive subtype since ca 2010. However, that's just a minor gripe.

 

I'd also most definitely recommend Vogt's two volumes on the Bf 109, if you're interested in the differences between the various marks:

 

https://www.vdmedien24.de/Vogt-Messerschmitt-Bf-109-Einsatzmaschinen-Das-Nachschlagwerk-Luftfahrt

 

https://www.vdmedien24.de/Vogt-Messerschmitt-Bf-109-Versuchs-Erprobungstraeger-Weg-zur-Serienproduktion

 

At 68 EUR a piece, they're not cheap, but they are absolutely worth the price in my opinion.

 

Prien & Rodeike's "Messerschmitt Bf 109 F, G & K Series" is also a very good reference - in fact, it was revolutionary when it came out. However, the revised edition is about 20 years old by now, so it's become a bit dated in places. 

 

Specifically for the 109 F, I'd also recommend Michulec' book:

 

MMP Books » Książki

 

Unfortunately, it's currently out of print.

 

Other good books on the 109 are the Radinger & Schick and Schmoll volumes on the 109; however, these books are more about the development-technical history of the aircraft, and focus less on the nitty-gritty of detail differences between subtypes, or between different production blocks/manufacturers:

 

https://www.vdmedien24.de/Radinger-Schick-MESSERSCHMITT-Me-109-Jagdflugzeug-Erpobung-Technik-Entwicklung

 

https://www.amazon.de/ME-109-Produktion-Peter-Schmoll/dp/3866463561

 

The two Radinger & Schick volumes have now been bundled in German into a single volume (see link above), but they're also still available in English from Schiffer as two separate volumes (A-E and F-K).

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by pvanroy

[D.B. Andrus]

50 minutes ago, Jennings Heilig said:

Speaking of Bf109F references, does anyone have this one, and how is it?  Worth $53??

 

 

Yes, it will only get more expensive. Excellent value.

[D.B. Andrus]

17 minutes ago, pvanroy said:

https://www.vdmedien24.de/Vogt-Messerschmitt-Bf-109-Einsatzmaschinen-Das-Nachschlagwerk-Luftfahrt

 

https://www.vdmedien24.de/Vogt-Messerschmitt-Bf-109-Versuchs-Erprobungstraeger-Weg-zur-Serienproduktion

 

A working knowledge of German is invaluable with these books.  Excellent references.

[MikeMaben]

14 hours ago, pvanroy said:

Supercharger intake

 

At the start of production, both the F-2 and F-4 used the same narrow, tubular intake. The larger supercharger intake was introduced on the F-4 trop and F-4/Z. This was done in part to increase air flow to the engine,

 

Also the F-4Z was the first to use GM-1 nitrous oxide injection.

Don't know if it was retro-fitted to any F-4s.

[Kagemusha]

There's quite a selection of F-2 specific masks and decals available, so demand should be there.

[pvanroy]

3 hours ago, MikeMaben said:

 

Also the F-4Z was the first to use GM-1 nitrous oxide injection.

Don't know if it was retro-fitted to any F-4s.

 

Not quite: the first Bf 109 version to use GM-1 was the E-7/Z. WNF built a small batch of 17 E-7/Z aircraft in February-March 1941 (W.Nr. 5920 - 5985), but additional aircraft were upgraded to E-7/Z standard (e.g. Galland's W.Nr. 5819, which started life as a WNF-built E-4/N, but was upgraded to E-7/Z standard in early 1941).

 

The mounting of the GM-1 tanks differed between the E-7/Z and F-4/Z: while in the E-7/Z they were mounted in the fuselage, the F-4/Z had them in the wings (filler points were in the wheel wells).

 

The Germans were very adept at recycling airframes, so I assume a number of F-4 aircraft may have been upgraded to F-4/Z standard at some point - technically, there wasn't anything preventing such a retrofit.

[thierry laurent]

I got the Vogt books and will say that even if your knowledge of German is quite limited, the pictures, scale drawings and TM views are invaluable. The volume 1 is less interesting as it focuses on prototypes.

[Steve C]

Sort of like this conversion less the gun cover?

 

https://www.largescaleplanes.com/reviews/review.php?rid=81