Uncarina Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 18 minutes ago, JayW said: Alot to unpack when making comparisons of heavy WW2 bombers. Experts can write books about it. I can make a couple of comments though, and I am not necessarily a devoted USA-loving B-17 fan. I love the Lancaster just as much. The British heavy bombers like the Lancaster had black paint on them for a reason. They bombed primarily at night. And for good reason - to minimize interference from flak guns, and ESPECIALLY interference from interceptors. Therefore, armament could be cut back to a minimum, and that weight could be directly transferred to payload - more and bigger bombs. The B-17's and B-24's by design were daylight bombers that had to bear the brunt of attacking cannon-armed 109's and 190's and 110's, coming at them like a swarm of angry hornets. Therefore they bristled with 50-cal MG's and ammo - heavy loads that detracted directly from bomb load. The interceptor problem was so bad, as we all know, that daylight bombing was nearly stopped altogether until good long range fighter escorts (the P-51 primarily) could be brought to bear. Compare to the Lancaster which had fewer guns, and they were 303's. Night fighters were a terrifying force for sure, but did not come up in swarms and were not a reason to increase armament like the day bombers. Also, all those turrets had an effect on aerodynamics and fuel burn. If range was to be maintained, further reduction in bomb load would be necessary. I read somewhere the B-24 front turret (on the later models) was a terrible penalty on its range. The B-17G chin turret, I bet, had a similar effect. But those features were added by necessity. Also, the service ceiling of the American heavy bombers was much higher - all in an attempt to minimize effectiveness of flak and interceptors. The Lancaster bomb load would not be as impressive if it had to bring it up to 35K feet. Just a totally different environment in which to conduct strategic bombing. But doing so, Allied forces could conduct the bombing campaign 24 hours a day. Have you read any of the books or seen any of the movies on the Dambusters? Gripping. B-17's could not have done that!! Jay, I agree, this could be an entire thread. Two very different approaches to the same goal, with very different aircraft, strategies, and tactics. Tight boxes of bombers offering mutual protection, bristling with guns, and ten or more crew members vs. loose assemblages of bombers waging war with and on radar, using seven or fewer crew members. A variety of metrics could be applied--and have been--to assess which approach was more effective at a given point in time. I've been thinking about this a lot during my build, and when I've been doing research. I don't think anyone can come up with a definitive answer, but that hasn't stopped some pretty intense controversy! Cheers, Tom JayW and Martinnfb 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncarina Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 Thanks Dennis! I'm working the seams now, looking forward to getting past this! BTW, I've made progress on the masks, hope to focus on them the next few days. Cheers, Tom Martinnfb, Greg W and Dennis7423 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncarina Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 Dennis, to follow up on the gluing and filling fuselage seams topic, a concern I had was using CA in case it fogged the clear windows. This isn't so much of a concern for me in the aft fuselage, but I use Mr Surfacer for the forward seams. What are your thoughts about this? Cheers, Tom Dennis7423 and Martinnfb 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis7423 Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Uncarina said: Dennis, to follow up on the gluing and filling fuselage seams topic, a concern I had was using CA in case it fogged the clear windows. This isn't so much of a concern for me in the aft fuselage, but I use Mr Surfacer for the forward seams. What are your thoughts about this? I too have the same concern. I rarely seal my fuselages on any build with CA. I tend to use regular glue, and then hit my seams with putty if there are big gaps/steps, then some brushed on Mr. Surfacer. This is then smoothed out, and then I recribe any lost detail. A bit tedious, but I've found I like the results! Fortunately, the Lanc is a small seam on the lower front, a moderate seam on the lower rear, a great big bomb bay in between, and a long, level, easy to get to seam on the top! - Dennis S. Thornton, CO USA Martinnfb and Uncarina 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncarina Posted January 4, 2021 Author Share Posted January 4, 2021 “‘Anyone for S-Sugar?’ the driver shouted, as she had on the occasion of our first raid together. So it was beginning again. We were first of the ten into the air. The murk at low level had thinned somewhat. One might have expected some weak sunshine and a suggestion of blue sky to develop. But we rose into greyness that still obtained at 8,000 ft over Woodbridge where we had been due to rendezvous with our nominated G-H leader, a Waterbeach kite. By the time the Dutch coastline appeared on Bill’s H2S set conditions were deteriorating fast. We were being tossed around like the proverbial cork on the ocean, and formating was less of a concern than the fear of collision. Everyone but Bill and Mac was on watch, straining to make out the first, vague outline hardening to black and giving us perhaps two or three seconds in which to react.” — Luck and a Lancaster: Chance and Survival in World War II (Airlife Classics) by Harry Yates https://a.co/5RrSJpy It's been a few weeks since my last update, but between the holiday festivities I've been steadily working on the less glamorous but necessary task of joining the fuselage, hiding the seams, rescribing the panel lines and rivets, covering the original turret position, and focusing on the Martin turret position. Here you can see one of the scab plates added on each side of the fuselage, as well as the turret fairing. I thought long and hard about how I could replicate it. Styrene? Sheet aluminum or brass? In the end I went with Apoxy Sculpt, and am now in the process of carving, sanding, and blending. Almost forgot, I've also faired in most of the windows: As you can see I have a bit more work to do with the turret and window blending, but not too much. Then the engines! Cheers, Tom P.S., a few more of my Uncle Ivan's photos: scvrobeson, easixpedro, dennismcc and 13 others 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monthebiff Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Really like your approach to the Martin turret Tom, looking very good indeed and thank you for sharing your uncles pictures of that early Hurricane, fantastic! Regards. Andy dennismcc, Uncarina and Martinnfb 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncarina Posted January 4, 2021 Author Share Posted January 4, 2021 Thank you Andy! I think that once I'm over the hurdle of finishing the turret modifications the build will be much more straightforward--I'm definitely looking forward to that. I'm glad you like my Uncle's photos. I have a few more that I will be sharing in future posts, but that Hurricane caught my eye as well! Cheers, Tom Greg W and Martinnfb 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncarina Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 Thanks Maru! It’s great to have you along, and your encouragement always helps me with sharing my work and family stories. Sincerely, Tom Martinnfb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Just catching up on this one Tom. Fantastic thread, extra special to do a model with personal meaning and you're doing a great job with it! Cheers, Kirby Uncarina and Martinnfb 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis7423 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Looking great Tom! Keep up the outstanding work! - Dennis S. Thornton, CO USA Martinnfb and Uncarina 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncarina Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 3 hours ago, turbo said: Just catching up on this one Tom. Fantastic thread, extra special to do a model with personal meaning and you're doing a great job with it! Cheers, Kirby Kirby, Thanks for looking in, and glad you like the thread! I wish my Dad could see it. I built the Tamiya 1/48 Lancaster years ago, and I was so glad he liked it. 2 hours ago, Dennis7423 said: Looking great Tom! Keep up the outstanding work! - Dennis S. Thornton, CO USA Dennis, Thanks, I appreciate it. Thanks for showing the way! Cheers, Tom Martinnfb and Dennis7423 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber Command nut Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Tom I think that the fairing for the Martin turrets looks really good. I would be interested in knowing how you covered over the original turret hole ? I trust you didnt 'cheat' and use a dambuster top cover ?? Keep at it, I think you've got something there . . . . rgds Ian Martinnfb and Uncarina 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncarina Posted January 6, 2021 Author Share Posted January 6, 2021 Ian, Thanks for looking in and for your encouragement! Alas, I indeed did cheat by adding the Dambuster version’s plug. The fit was good, and I blended it in to remove the seam. Welcome to the forum! Cheers, Tom Martinnfb, Bomber Command nut and Greg W 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis7423 Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'! - Dennis S. Thornton, CO USA Uncarina, John1, Bomber Command nut and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monthebiff Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 3 hours ago, Dennis7423 said: If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'! - Dennis S. Thornton, CO USA and no point making it more difficult than it needs to be Regards. Andy Dennis7423, Uncarina, Martinnfb and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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