Need advice to build 1/32 CF-104

[chuck540z3]

Gents,

 

As my Hawker Tempest build winds down, it's time to think about my next project, which I think will be a CF-104 in mostly bare metal like the pic below.  This is because:

 

1. It has to be a Jet.  I've done 2 Props in a row and it's time for some kerosene
2. Nothing in my stash is calling me
3. I've never built one before
4. Lots of aftermarket is available
5. I can order everything online
6. I think I can have some fun with that bare metal finish.  Just look how scratched the upper surfaces are!
7. There is one parked in our local museum for references
8. It's Canadian, eh?

 

Like most of my models, I know nothing about them until I get into the build, so I need help.  This is what I'm about to order, but before I do, please let me know of anything wrong or other things you think I should buy or use.  As usual, this model will be loaded with lots of aftermarket stuff, but maybe some of these items are a waste of time?

 

- ITA2514 1:32 Italeri F-104G F-104S Starfighter Upgraded RF Version.  This one has the correct decals for this bird, which I think is a "G" equivalent?

- ARS2201 1:32 Aires F-104G F-104S Starfighter Cockpit Set with C2 Ejection Seat.  Is the C2 the correct seat, or the MB GQ-7A one?

- ARS2205 1:32 Aires CF-104G F-104S Starfighter Wheel Bay Set

- ARS2208 1:32 Aires F-104G F-104S Starfighter Electronics & Ammunition Bay Set

- MASAM32037 1:32 Master Model F-104 Starfighter Pitot Tube

- RESRS320010 1:32 ResKit F-104F F-104G Starfighter Wheels Set.  Eduard also has 2 sets of wheels, for early or late.  Which one is correct?

- RESRSU320020U 1:32 ResKit F-104A F-104C F-104D F-104J F-104G Starfighter Exhaust Nozzle.  This also comes in an early or late version, while Brassin makes a set as well.     Which one should I buy?

- EDU32427 1:32 Eduard PE - TF-104G Starfighter Exterior Detail Set.  I'm not sure what exactly is on this fret, but if there's a few nice items, it will be worth it.  Eduard also makes a lot of other things, but I think Aires resin stuff above covers all of those bases already?

 

Right now I am most interested in the Early or Late Wheels and Early or Late Exhaust.  Which ones for these birds below?

 

Thanks,

Chuck

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by chuck540z3

[DrewH]

8 minutes ago, chuck540z3 said:

 

 

- ITA2514 1:32 Italeri F-104G F-104S Starfighter Upgraded RF Version.  This one has the correct decals for this bird, which I think is a "G" equivalent? Yes - G is needed

- ARS2201 1:32 Aires F-104G F-104S Starfighter Cockpit Set with C2 Ejection Seat.  Is the C2 the correct seat, or the MB GQ-7A one? C2 is correct

- ARS2205 1:32 Aires CF-104G F-104S Starfighter Wheel Bay Set

- ARS2208 1:32 Aires F-104G F-104S Starfighter Electronics & Ammunition Bay Set

- MASAM32037 1:32 Master Model F-104 Starfighter Pitot Tube This you will want

- RESRS320010 1:32 ResKit F-104F F-104G Starfighter Wheels Set.  Eduard also has 2 sets of wheels, for early or late.  Which one is correct? We mainly used early iirc but was a mix bag as they got on with age. 

- RESRSU320020U 1:32 ResKit F-104A F-104C F-104D F-104J F-104G Starfighter Exhaust Nozzle.  This also comes in an early or late version, while Brassin makes a set as well.     Which one should I buy? my preference is ResKit

- EDU32427 1:32 Eduard PE - TF-104G Starfighter Exterior Detail Set.  I'm not sure what exactly is on this fret, but if there's a few nice items, it will be worth it.  Eduard also makes a lot of other things, but I think Aires resin stuff above covers all of those bases already? Lots of little bits like shell ejector chute you'll want in etch. 

 

Right now I am most interested in the Early or Late Wheels and Early of Late Exhaust.  Which ones for these birds below?

 

It'll be great I know it! We have a TF-104 here in Langley but I don't know what the access is now. We're currently on lockdown. If I can help please let me know - I know a retired RCAF Starfighter tech who may be able to answer specific q's. PM me as needed. 

[chuck540z3]

4 minutes ago, DrewH said:

 

It'll be great I know it! We have a TF-104 here in Langley but I don't know what the access is now. We're currently on lockdown. If I can help please let me know - I know a retired RCAF Starfighter tech who may be able to answer specific q's. PM me as needed. 

 

Thank you for the kind offer Drew, but we have one of these bad boys here in Calgary already.  I plan on going to the Military Museums and take pics of just about every angle possible, which should help me a lot!

 

 

Cheers,

Chuck

[DrewH]

Sounds good to me - look forward to the progress! 

[BloorwestSiR]

I've got the Italeri two seater on my bench (well, next to my bench) with the plan to do as 12666 aka Triple Sick. According to Larry Mulberry's book on the Starfighter, she was a hanger queen that the ground crews hated working on and when she crashed, they bought the pilot beers at the bar whenever he was there. Makes a great story. 

 

Anyways, for my build, I'm using the early wheels and burner can, and C2 seat.

 

If you're going to try to use the Aires cockpit, it's going to be a challenge to fit it in the fuselage. Here's how wide the tub is compared to the kit one. 

 

 

I ended up just using the rear bulkhead and the sidewalls on my single seater. 

 

Oddly enough, the gear bays are almost a drop in fit. 

 

Also, there's supposed to be an issue with the maple leaf in the RCAF roundels in the kit. I managed to get a copy of the CT-133 decals that Canuck Models did to fix that. 

 

I think you can use Belcher's Bits CT-133 sheet for roundels. I'll have to double check that. 

 

Hope that helps. 

Carl

 

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by BloorwestSiR

[Dave Williams]

You will need to use the narrow wheels and flat gear doors, the latter of which are in the kit.  What Eduard calls the “early” wheels are actually F-104A/C wheels with the narrow tires and dished hubs.  Their “late” wheels are F-104G wheels with the wide tires and spoked hubs.  The CF-104 wheels were basically the narrow wheels of the A/C models combined with the spoked hubs of the G/S series.  Eduard doesn’t offer that configuration in one box.  I think ResKit does.

 

These are the wheels you want.  https://store.spruebrothers.com/product_p/resrs320009.htm

For exhausts, you’ll want the “early” exhaust.  There are basically two exhausts, similar to the F-4 exhausts.  The “late” long exhaust (similar to the F-4E exhaust) was only used on the F-104S, and many German F-104s late in life when they were fitted with the upgraded engine.  All other F-104s, including the CF-104, used the “short” exhaust, similar to the F-4C/D exhaust.

This is the exhaust you want https://store.spruebrothers.com/product_p/resrsu320020u.htm

 

or https://store.spruebrothers.com/product_p/edu632043.htm

 

Also, early in life, CF-104s when in the NMF, did not carry the cannon, so the port was faired over and the belly case deflector was not installed.  When they later went to the tactical schemes (all green, or gray/green camo), the cannon was reinstalled.  The CAF markings in the RF kit are for a 1979 vintage aircraft, so no cannon, and no ammo box.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Dave Williams

[chuck540z3]

Thanks a lot for the tips guys.  It looks like "Early" everything and I'll be careful to follow your advice.

 

13 minutes ago, BloorwestSiR said:

I've got the Italeri two seater on my bench (well, next to my bench) with the plan to do as 12666 aka Triple Sick. According to Larry Mulberry's book on the Starfighter, she was a hanger queen that the ground crews hated working on and when she crashed, they bought the pilot beers at the bar whenever he was there. Makes a great story. 

 

Anyways, for my build, I'm using the early wheels and burner can, and C2 seat.

 

If you're going to try to use the Aires cockpit, it's going to be a challenge to fit it in the fuselage. Here's how wide the tub is compared to the kit one. 

 

 

I ended up just using the rear bulkhead and the sidewalls on my single seater. 

 

Oddly enough, the gear bays are almost a drop in fit. 

 

Also, there's supposed to be an issue with the maple leaf in the RCAF roundels in the kit. I managed to get a copy of the CT-133 decals that Canuck Models did to fix that. 

 

I think you can use Belcher's Bits CT-133 sheet for roundels. I'll have to double check that. 

 

Hope that helps. 

Carl

 

Thanks for those tips as well Carl, especially the one about the Aires cockpit.  Since it doesn't fit, I happen to have the rare Black Box F-104G cockpit with C-2 seat made for the Hasegawa kit, so it might fit better.  I put a Black Box (Avionix) cockpit made for Hasegawa in my Kitty Hawk F-5E and it fit really well, so maybe I'll get lucky again!

 

Cheers,

Chuck

 

 

[Grizly]

Other after market products that you might want to consider include:

-          Eduard’s Brassin 632 047 F-104 C2 ejection seat,

-          CMK’s 5099 F-104G/S Main Undercarriage set,

-          CMK’s 5101 F-104 Nose Gear Bay  

-          CMK's 5056 F-104 Engine bay

Regarding the latter engine bay by CMK, as depicted in your photo of a CF-104 line, it was common for the engine bay to be open. So it is worth considering that option. My model, as shown below, includes it.....

[Gazzas]

I only have one word of advice:  Foil

[Dave Williams]

Some other comments.  In my experience, the BB cockpit for the Hasegawa kit does not fit better.  Also, if you really want to be accurate, the top part of the instrument panel was different on the CFs than on other F-104s.  Look here.  http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/101-200/walk101_CF104/walk101.htm  There was a large artificial horizon in the middle of the top part of the panel.

 

Also, you need to remove the IR sensor “bump” at the base of the center windscreen panel.

 

Finally, I think the Aires wheel bay is a bit overkill since the large forward MLG doors are normally almost closed on the ground, so you can’t see much of the detail.

[Finn]

Too bad there is no 1/32 Mk-43 nuke available to put on:

 

 

in this case a practice version. Or you could just put a nice shiny MN-1A on the c/l:

 

http://silverhawkauthor.com/images/site_graphics/Aircraft/Aircraft---Canada/Canadair-CF-104-Starfighter--Serial-No--104743---Spangdahlem--Germany--1970.jpg

 

Some NMF CF-104s in Cold Lake did have the gun, the one i did my CF-104Armament Course on did.

 

Jari

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Finn

[chuck540z3]

3 minutes ago, Dave Williams said:

Some other comments.  In my experience, the BB cockpit for the Hasegawa kit does not fit better.  Also, if you really want to be accurate, the top part of the instrument panel was different on the CFs than on other F-104s.  Look here.  http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/101-200/walk101_CF104/walk101.htm  There was a large artificial horizon in the middle of the top part of the panel.

 

Also, you need to remove the IR sensor “bump” at the base of the center windscreen panel.

 

Finally, I think the Aires wheel bay is a bit overkill since the large forward MLG doors are normally almost closed on the ground, so you can’t see much of the detail.

 

Thanks Dave.  Duly noted!

 

Has anybody had any luck plugging the Aires Cockpit into this kit?

 

13 minutes ago, Gazzas said:

I only have one word of advice:  Foil

 

If you can show me one good example of using foil, I would consider it.  By "good example", I would like to see super close-up pics.  Most foiled model pics are taken from 2 feet away which look terrific from that distance, but they don't really tell you much about how well the foil was applied close up.

 

Cheers,

Chuck

 

 

Cheers,

Chuck

[BloorwestSiR]

8 minutes ago, chuck540z3 said:

Has anybody had any luck plugging the Aires Cockpit into this kit?

 

The only one I've seen was done by Michael Benolkin (sp?) from Cybermodeler. He had a hell of a time getting the fuselage to close up and on a subsequent build, didn't bother. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by BloorwestSiR
Fix typo

[Rockie Yarwood]

Hey Chuck, I am really looking forward to seeing what you do with this project! I had dreams of doing a CF-104 with the Vinten Recce pod, and was really bummed when Italeri chose not to include it. So, mine will be a German RF-104G instead. Consequently, I have a Belcher Bits CF-104 decal set that I don't need. I would be happy to donate it to the cause, if you think it might be useful. It is yours for the asking.

 

Cheers, Rockie

 

[chuck540z3]

1 minute ago, Rockie Yarwood said:

Hey Chuck, I am really looking forward to seeing what you do with this project! I had dreams of doing a CF-104 with the Vinten Recce pod, and was really bummed when Italeri chose not to include it. So, mine will be a German RF-104G instead. Consequently, I have a Belcher Bits CF-104 decal set that I don't need. I would be happy to donate it to the cause, if you think it might be useful. It is yours for the asking.

 

Cheers, Rockie

 

 

YES PLEASE!  I have been looking all over for decals for this project and haven't found any, knowing the kit ones were flawed.  PM coming.

 

Thanks,

Chuck