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1/32 Revell Me 262B-1/U1 Nachtjager


Thunnus

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Hi John,

 

I am excited about your latest project. I have this one also, but haven't found the time yet to work on it. In the past few months my focus has turned to finishing my Captured Eagles Vol. 2 book. Anyways, what I never liked about both Revell's and Eduard's panels is that they are based on Me 262 A-1a panels and more specifically: early-production panel with color coding of a JG 7 aircraft. Most won't bother as the differences are not huge, but I always hoped that there would be a nice and correct aftermarket panel. 

 

 There was an attempt by a forum member to 3D print such parts, but I think in the end the resolution was not high enough: 

 

 

Instrument colors:

The red and white colors around the instrument dials was a typical feature of some JG 7 aircraft. Messerschmitt prepared a document with illustrations of how JG 7 has color-coded their instruments in a technical report from 1945 (I have a copy of that report that I copied at the NASM archives in Washington). I have only seen this type of color coding in cockpits of some JG 7 aircraft. Otherwise, the fuel related gauges were yellow in almost all late war production Me 262, but the temperature and rpm indicators had simple red lines on the respective limits.

 

Instruments:

Late war production models had a number of instruments missing. This was the result of an "Entfeinerung" effort towards the end of 1944, where as many parts as possible were removed in order to use less resources and a lower variety of different components. The jet engine differential pressure gauges, indicator for pitot tube heating in the blind flying panel and others were no longer installed. Careful study of the wartime photo of the Me 262 B panel (e.g. published in Smith/Creek's 4 volume book series; see below) helps determine which ones exactly. In the B-panel below there was just one fuel pressure gauge (yellow ring) and one oil pressure gauge (red-brown ring). The instrument to the right is a small voltage indicator that was inserted from behind. Then there is the auxiliary t&b indicator on the left of the temperature indicators. The temperature indicators have an unusually bright ring. I suspect it was white.

 

In addition, except for some early production Me 262s, the electrical indicators for the 4 MK 108 underneath the SZKK2 were never installed. The Me 262 B had a large repeater compass and not the small one of the A-1a. There, Eduard used the correct compass, but an incorrect shape of the blind flying panel. Eduard's panel is the one that was used in the Me 262 A-1 equipped as a bad weather fighter (FuG 125, autopilot) as documented by a wartime drawing and also a panel that was brought to the US. The nightfighter blind flying panel was made out of metal sheet (and not wood like in the bad weather fighter) and had a different shape. The lower edge consisted of straight lines and not a curved one. The nightfighter also had an additional 80mm instrument in a simple auxiliary panel attached to the lower edge of the main panel. I believe it was a double manifold pressure gauge to indicate the pressure difference of the two jet exhausts. The same instrument was used in the Ar 234 for example so that the pilot could easily determine if both engines had the same thrust. In the panel below there was a rectangular, late production rate of climb indicator, but the round one was more common.

 

But as I said at the beginning, most will not bother as the differences are small and a lot of effort would be involved to correct every detail. 

 

I am looking forward to your build.

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

 

Jq3Byt.jpg

 

 

 

 

Edited by VintageEagle
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16 hours ago, Alex said:

Nice job!  The combination of the better 3-D shape of the kit molding and your careful work with the decals beats the Eduard part hands-down.  Are you going to use some Future or similar to make shiny "glass" faces for the instruments?

 

Yes!  See below!

 

 

8 hours ago, VintageEagle said:

Hi John,

 

I am excited about your latest project. I have this one also, but haven't found the time yet to work on it. In the past few months my focus has turned to finishing my Captured Eagles Vol. 2 book. Anyways, what I never liked about both Revell's and Eduard's panels is that they are based on Me 262 A-1a panels and more specifically: early-production panel with color coding of a JG 7 aircraft. Most won't bother as the differences are not huge, but I always hoped that there would be a nice and correct aftermarket panel. 

 

 There was an attempt by a forum member to 3D print such parts, but I think in the end the resolution was not high enough: 

 

 

Instrument colors:

The red and white colors around the instrument dials was a typical feature of some JG 7 aircraft. Messerschmitt prepared a document with illustrations of how JG 7 has color-coded their instruments in a technical report from 1945 (I have a copy of that report that I copied at the NASM archives in Washington). I have only seen this type of color coding in cockpits of some JG 7 aircraft. Otherwise, the fuel related gauges were yellow in almost all late war production Me 262, but the temperature and rpm indicators had simple red lines on the respective limits.

 

Instruments:

Late war production models had a number of instruments missing. This was the result of an "Entfeinerung" effort towards the end of 1944, where as many parts as possible were removed in order to use less resources and a lower variety of different components. The jet engine differential pressure gauges, indicator for pitot tube heating in the blind flying panel and others were no longer installed. Careful study of the wartime photo of the Me 262 B panel (e.g. published in Smith/Creek's 4 volume book series; see below) helps determine which ones exactly. In the B-panel below there was just one fuel pressure gauge (yellow ring) and one oil pressure gauge (red-brown ring). The instrument to the right is a small voltage indicator that was inserted from behind. Then there is the auxiliary t&b indicator on the left of the temperature indicators. The temperature indicators have an unusually bright ring. I suspect it was white.

 

In addition, except for some early production Me 262s, the electrical indicators for the 4 MK 108 underneath the SZKK2 were never installed. The Me 262 B had a large repeater compass and not the small one of the A-1a. There, Eduard used the correct compass, but an incorrect shape of the blind flying panel. Eduard's panel is the one that was used in the Me 262 A-1 equipped as a bad weather fighter (FuG 125, autopilot) as documented by a wartime drawing and also a panel that was brought to the US. The nightfighter blind flying panel was made out of metal sheet (and not wood like in the bad weather fighter) and had a different shape. The lower edge consisted of straight lines and not a curved one. The nightfighter also had an additional 80mm instrument in a simple auxiliary panel attached to the lower edge of the main panel. I believe it was a double manifold pressure gauge to indicate the pressure difference of the two jet exhausts. The same instrument was used in the Ar 234 for example so that the pilot could easily determine if both engines had the same thrust. In the panel below there was a rectangular, late production rate of climb indicator, but the round one was more common.

 

But as I said at the beginning, most will not bother as the differences are small and a lot of effort would be involved to correct every detail. 

 

I am looking forward to your build.

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

 

Jq3Byt.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much for your detailed information and excellent photo, Roger!  I was following that 3D printing thread for a while in hopes that I utilize them for this build but it didn't seem like a product was going to be immediately available.  While I strive for a level of "believable authenticity" in my builds, I am not a stickler for exact accuracy if that makes any sense.  But I do welcome any and all expert knowledge of this aircraft!

 

 

5 hours ago, Basta said:

Really looking forward to seeing you handle this. Like many others I've got the kit, researched my scheme and have lately been procrastinating over it for my next build. Now I can just toss the kit instructions. 

 

I have not decided on a scheme yet but am leaning towards Red 10 (110635).  I have some ideas in my head concerning the top surface mottle pattern as well as the bottom surface black that I'd like to explore.  If anyone has any good photos of Red 10, I'd love to see them!

 

Back to this build... I think Revell's choice to include high resolution decals and a well-molded instrument panel with smooth bezels (no raised instrument details) should be considered by all manufacturers as a viable alternative to aftermarket instrument panels.

 

I've added UV-activated clear epoxy into the dial faces to complete the instrument panel.
IMG-0306.jpg

 

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After I've verified that decals over kit parts is a viable approach to the cockpit, I started looking at the pilot side panels.  Once I've committed to the decal approach, I think I need to follow through with this throughout the cockpit.
IMG-0324.jpg

 

 

The build of the 262B interior is not exactly simple.  There is no cockpit "tub" to speak of and front and rear cockpits are separated.  And the bottom of the cockpit forms the ceiling of the wheel wells.  So I thought it would be a good idea to slow down and take a good look at kit instructions as well as the Eduard photoetch instructions to form a more cohesive strategy.  There are some photoetch parts that I'm planning on using such as the Revi gunsight.  There are also some mix-and-match opportunities like using the photoetch frame for the kit-supplied radar equipment box.  Something in the Eduard instructions that puzzled me.  Can anyone clarify the component shown on the bottom of the page that is mounted on the rear of the forward canopy?
IMG-0328.jpg

 

 

It is not the radar equipment housing, which is represented as Assembly Y below.
IMG-0327.jpg

 

 

The Revell instructions show nothing there.
IMG-0326.jpg

 

 

I assume this is object in question mounted on Red 6 (110306 aka FE610).
48712050318-aa644b37fa-o.jpg

 

 

But it does not appear to be present on Red 10 (110635), which is the machine I'm planning to depict.
48712382721-6c0f4bd576-o.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, Thunnus said:

 Can anyone clarify the component shown on the bottom of the page that is mounted on the rear of the forward canopy?

 

 

The Revell instructions show nothing there.
IMG-0326.jpg

 

 

I assume this is object in question mounted on Red 6 (110306 aka FE610).
48712050318-aa644b37fa-o.jpg

 

 

But it does not appear to be present on Red 10 (110635), which is the machine I'm planning to depict.
48712382721-6c0f4bd576-o.jpg

 

 

In as far as I know, that device is a Bernhardine Peilschriber. See this: https://nonstopsystems.com/radio/hellschreiber-modes-other-hell-brnhrdne.htm

It appears that this device may not have bee present on all aircraft at all times, possibly due to shortages. 

HTH 

Radu 

Edited by Radub
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On 11/18/2020 at 12:37 AM, Radub said:

 

In as far as I know, that device is a Bernhardine Peilschriber. See this: https://nonstopsystems.com/radio/hellschreiber-modes-other-hell-brnhrdne.htm

It appears that this device may not have bee present on all aircraft at all times, possibly due to shortages. 

HTH 

Radu 

 

Hmmm... if it weren't coming from you, I would've said that you must be pulling my leg!  :D  Bernhardine Peilshcriber eh?  Maybe... maybe.

 

Based on the what the mystery Eduard assembly looks like physically, I am guessing that they are providing a FuG 350 Naxos radar unit but it doesn't exactly match the photo of Red 6.

 

Naoxs-Fu-G-350.jpg

 

225781-11104-17-pristine.jpg

 

Also... found this quote on the now-defunct Stormbirds website...

 

Despite all that we have learned about the Nachtjäger (night-fighter) Me 262 variants, some fundamental questions remain.  The radar operator's electronics suite is one such area where detailed information has proven exceedingly difficult to come by.

These postwar photos of FE-610, captured by the United States Army Air Forces, reveal an as yet unidentified component mounted to the canopy above the boxy FuG 16ZY radio.  While long thought to be a part of the onboard Neptune RADAR equipment, a recent dialogue on the matter over on the Stormbirds Forum has since called this into question.

So ... the question remains: what is mounted to the canopy just above the FuG 16ZY console?  Is it the FuG 350 "Naxos" Zc, a Spanner night vision system or perhaps some other device fitted by the Allies during postwar testing?

If you feel that you can positively identify it, please contact our staff archivist Richard Eger.  If possible, please try to include references to any relevant photographs, schematics, charts or original documents that may help to support your conclusions.

Edited by Thunnus
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Guest Vincent
21 hours ago, Thunnus said:

 

Bernhardine Peilshcriber eh?  Maybe... maybe.

 

 

Hmm

 

Not that convinced that it is that. I have looked at pictures with better resolution and one thing is clear : there are no electrical or signal cables leading to that device so it is a "standalone" device, most likely a movie camera.

 

If we take the example of Red 12 (WrkNr 111980) where pictures exists taken around the time of its capture by the RAF, there is no such device on the canopy. Yet a few weeks later, when in british colors, the very same device appears on the front canopy

 

Same thing happenned to WrkNr 110635 as well

 

The other reason why I do not think this is a german made equipement is that on good pictures you can clearly see that it is black, not RLM66 like everything else around it

 

Since virtually all the 2 seaters flown by the RAH seems to have it after capture, I'd go for a british made piece of equipment

Edited by Vincent
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3 hours ago, Vincent said:

 

Not that convinced that it is that. I have looked at pictures with better resolution and one thing is clear : there are no electrical or signal cables leading to that device so it is a "standalone" device, most likely a movie camera.

 



Wartime photos of the night-fighter cockpit feature “eyelets” welded on the internal canopy frame, right above the radio set, where the mounting brackets for a device like this could be bolted. Whatever this device was, the factory planned for it.

Radu

Edited by Radub
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Thanks for alternative explanation, Vince!  That also seems very plausible, especially given the photo I posted of Red 6... corresponds visually to some type of camera.

 

9 minutes ago, Radub said:



Wartime photos of the night-fighter cockpit feature two pairs of “eyelets” welded on the internal canopy frame, right above the radio set, where the mounting brackets for a device like this could be bolted. Whatever this device was, the factory planned for it.

Radu

 

Both scenarios could be valid.  One is not exclusive of the other. 

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