Another Trumpeter 1/16 Panther G Build - Steel Wheel - ONE MORE CORRECTION...DAMN TRACKS.

[LSP_Ray]

3 hours ago, LSP_K2 said:

 

The same guy that built the big Jagdtiger (Parker?), is also doing some splendid 3D stuff for the big Panthers & Panzer IVs. 

...And now for the Takom PzI!  While you are there, check out the new 3D printed PzI stuff! Just got my package of goodies today. Nice!

As of now, though, they only have decals for 88mm shells and 75mm shells in their Tiger II & PzIV interior decal sets.

[Juggernut]

6 hours ago, LSP_Ray said:

1/16 German 75mm Round markings for PzIV & Panther.

Yep, saw those.  While they say they’re for the Panther, they only give you Kwk 40 round data (Pz IV?).  I didn’t see any Kwk 42 round data on that sheet.  With almost 50 rounds of HE and 30 APC to do, it would cost a small fortune to buy those for the entire vehicle.  Luckily, I have an Alps printer and Adobe Illustrator so I can create my own, relatively accurate shell markings for next to nothing.  The brass case data will be slightly “off” but unless you know what you’re looking for, you’ll never know.  I am also running into using a decal for shell stamping data.  Not entirely accurate but the Panther kit doesn’t come with a bunch of PE case rims with engraving to represent said stamping.  So far, I’ve only seen that in the Tiger II kit.

 

Thanks for the info.  I appreciate the help with my project.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Juggernut

[Juggernut]

12 hours ago, LSP_Ray said:

You have probably seen this:

I had not seen that specific diagram, no.  In examining the images, they are all for the Pak 40, an anti-tank gun round.  The Kwk 42/L70 Panther round, while similar, carries somewhat different markings on the projectiles and shell cases.  They are close though so I thank you for the effort taken to post it and knowing the differences between the two may allow me to reference this diagram for decal placement.

 

I knew I was learning way more about Panther gun rounds than I ever thought I would need to….  I found a couple of pdf’s online that intimately describe German explosive rounds (all of them) in detail so I’ve had my head buried in those documents for the past few days.  I can post the titles here if anyone would like but I warn you, you’ll end up like me knowing way more about German shells, cases, and projectiles than you’d ever thought you would.

 

Handbook of Enemy Ammunition

 

German Explosive Ordnance

Edited September 14, 2021 by Juggernut

[dodgem37]

According to 'German Artillery of World War Two', by Ian V. Hogg, the Basic Body colours of projectiles was as follows:

High Explosive, anti-concrete, smoke, chemical, or hollow-charge shells: olive green, olive drab or field grey.
armour piercing shot or shell: black
high explosive shell for 3.7 cm anti-tank: silver grey
propaganda shell: white and red
anti-aircraft high explosive shell: yellow
anti-aircraft incendiary shrapnel shell: red and blue
star shell: pale green

With regard to the yellow green just below the fuze this can be explained thus.

A variety of markings were stencilled over the basic body colour, serving to give complete identification of the shell's history, contents and mode of operation. The shell can be divided into six marking zones:

1. Immediately below the fuze.
2. On the ogive or head.
3. On the parallel part of the body
4. Immediately above the driving band(s).
5. Immediately below the driving band(s).
6. On the base.

Zone 1 contained the fuzing factory's location, monogram and date. Zone 2 carried the code of the explosive filling and the weight marking, Zone 3 carried information about the shell's action, together with the date and place of filling (if it was a smoke shell). Zone 4 contained information on the date and place of filling with explosive and details relating to the design and construction of the driving band. Zone 5 usually gave the calibre, if this was mentioned at all. Zone 6 usually carried a brief summary of the more important details marked on the side-generally listing such details as the driving band, the filling, the fuze, and the weight.

In this case the 2 cm band which should be yellow would carry the following: Mark + indicating that the shell was for use only with time and percussion fuzes.

 

https://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1730

http://ww2data.blogspot.com/2017/04/german-projectiles-introduction-and.html

 

HTH.

Sincerely,

Mark

 

 

[Juggernut]

Yep, all that information is contained in the two pdf’s I am using.  LOL, the snips in your referenced link are from one of the source documents I’m using.

 

Thanks for the info.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Juggernut

[Juggernut]

A small update since I've last posted any progress....

 

I managed to get the lubrication lines installed, MOST of them anyway.  I'm fudging some of them because I just cannot determine the orientation of them all so some of the ones closest to the hull will be just "faux" lubrication lines.   As a few of you may be aware, I originally had installed these using 0.020 inch styrene rod...well, as I feared, that turned out to be a huge mistake mainly because styrene rod doesn't like to bend at 90 degree angles with a very tight radius and usually breaks.  So!  I  cut off the vast majority of the plastic rods where they wouldn't be seen (under a swing arm) and used 0.020 inch copper electrical wire in it's place.  It's springy but it bends nicely and stays in place.  I primed them and everything around the area with Tamiya surface primer so it'll take the water-based AMMO by MiG panzer red oxide primer.  It looks like hell right now but once I touch up all the myriad of spots, it should look a lot better.  First shot below is the left side of the hull; second shot below is of the right side of the hull.  I also started running the hydraulic lines to the transmission and steering apparatus as can be seen in the second shot.  I'll attach those a little bit later on.  Once thing I noticed about these lines is that they don't seem to be "neatly" installed in some vehicles.   I took that as a license to not be as pedantic as I wanted to be in bending the copper wires (which fought me every time I had more length than I could currently deal with....  I couldn't cut it off because it needed to be long enough to reach the other connection).

 

 

In the grand scheme of things, many of these lines won't be too visible once the other pieces are installed but they'll be conspicuously absent if I don't include them as the lubrication fittings on the sides of the fighting compartment are very noticeable.

 

 

 

Once thing I noticed while studying my references is that there is a metal box and pan on the left side of the vehicle between the power takeoff/hydraulic pump and the side of the hull.  Guess what?  Trumpeter doesn't provide either of these components so...you guessed it, scratchbuilding something else to go into this vehicle.  The pan and the box were made of styrene with thin solder clasps on the box and the frame made from 0.060 inch styrene channel.  The handle on the box lid is 0.020 inch copper wire inserted and  glued into two holes drilled in the top of the box.  Thank GOD I have the Rye Field Models 1/35 Panther G kit with the interior!  That has been a life saver in discovering what the Trumpeter kit does not include.  If you're ever going to do one of these projects, get that kit (if it's still available) and use it for a reference.  The pan is painted Tamiya Dark Iron and the box is painted Tamiya German Grey.  The frame is AMMO by MiG panzer red oxide primer.  I haven't done any weathering yet but had a little liquid cement run across the top of the box.  I think I'll use that to my advantage since all it did was discolor the paint.  Below is the photo of the pan and box installed on the frame.  The angle support at bottom left is to keep it clear of the hydraulic lines and the mount at bottom center is to attach it to the framework in the hull.  Both of these are actual installation points and not fictional.

 

 

Here's a shot of the pan and box installed (temporarily) along with the batteries (press fit).  It matches pretty well with my reference photos.  I got lucky...I think.  We'll see when the turret basket get set in place.  I'll need to shorten the mounting frame a little at the front as it shouldn't extend past the intercostal.

 

The driveshafts are two piece affairs in the real vehicle and I discovered that these are splined AFTER I installed them so that'll just have to be our secret.  I also created a decal for each driveshaft based only on what I can see in images.  For all I know, it may not even be a placard but to my eye, it sure looks like one.  So I made up some fake German text about torque and lubrication instructions and applied my decals to either drive shaft.

 

 

Lastly, here's a shot with the fighting compartment floor temporarily installed.  It appears that everything sits correctly and will not obstruct the  turret floor.  At least that's about a 85-90% good estimate on my part.

 

 

That's all for this short update.  Next up, the electrical board that runs diagonally between the left battery and the hull wall (clearing the left, rear ammunition holder); another area that Trumpeter does not provide in their kit but is very noticeably missing when the turret is removed.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Juggernut

[LSP_Ray]

Nice work, Jug!

[Juggernut]

29 minutes ago, LSP_Ray said:

Nice work, Jug!

Thanks Ray!  It'll look much better when I get everything cleaned and trimmed up properly.... This kit is pretty large but if anyone's going to try and build it with all the guts visible, they better be prepared for a LOT of additional work.  It's no wonder it took David Parker over three  years to build that King Tiger.  I may come close to that myself but there's a lot of things on this vehicle that are not in the King Tiger kit and thus make it a tiny bit easier to build than the King Tiger kit.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Juggernut

[josebagasteiz]

The change in strategy regarding the construction of the lubrication lines was very successful.

 

My grease lines were a great challenge for me and so far it has been the hardest thing I have ever built on my 1/16 Panther.

[Juggernut]

45 minutes ago, josebagasteiz said:

The change in strategy regarding the construction of the lubrication lines was very successful.

 

My grease lines were a great challenge for me and so far it has been the hardest thing I have ever built on my 1/16 Panther.

 

I absolutely agree and has been my experience as well.

[Juggernut]

Well, this project has hit the one year mark today; boy time flies.  I can say that I've not shelved this project for anything else since it began although the urge has hit more than once.  I've got some more progress to share but haven't taken any photos just yet.  Suffice to say I've connected the lubrication lines to their end points, installed most of the loose parts in the hull bottom, and am getting ready to install the fighting compartment floor.

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Juggernut

[Juggernut]

Here's some photos of what I've been up to on this monster.

 

Painted the elfenbien (Ivory).  I was fortunate enough to find a book with some very good interior shots of a September 1944 M.A.N production Steel-wheel Panther.  I painted the elfenbien in the areas where the photographs show.  Notice that it varies from other vehicles from MNH or Diamler Benz.  September of 1944 was when the factories were told to stop painting the interiors multi-colored (Germany's Panther Tank, the Quest for Combat Surpemacy, Jentz, 1997).  Later, they were instructed to leave the interiors unpainted entirely and then reinstituted the elfenbien in early 1945. 

 

 

Installed the tray and box.  Need to touch up some of the red-brown primer on the structure supporting these two pieces.  All-in-all, I don't think they came out too badly.  Batteries cemented in their respective places.  Note to anyone building this kit:  The batteries are NOT symmetrical, meaning you can install them incorrectly.  The instructions don't mention this and I had to reverse the batteries and lids from what the instructions show to fit them correctly.  I added battery cables but I'm not altogether happy with the 0.030-inch lead wire I used; it doesn't appear to be thick enough.  Too late to go back and change it now, it'll have to do.  Lubrication lines were a giant PITA to get inserted into their respective fittings and I ended up damaging some beyond repair so they will be replaced (at some point) with 0.020-inch rod (either plastic or copper) that will truncate beneath the hull, out of sight.  With the floor in place, there isn't much that's visible.

 

 

Shells installed below the hull floor.  Trumpeter provides the rack but the straps and buckles had to be scratched.  Each of the armor piercing rounds (as well as the HE rounds) has markings on the projectile.  I had to create these using my ALP's printer and while they're not as bright as I think they should be,  they can be read (up close).  The stencils on the cases came in the kit.

 

 

Ammunition storage on the floor of the vehicle.  I discovered that each of the round bins had either sheet metal or synthetic fabric covers that were used to prevent mud, dirt, and other debris from getting on the shells.  It was important to keep the rounds clean or they could cause the weapon to malfunction/jam...not a good thing to happen in combat.  Trumpeter does provide covers for the bins but from what I see in the photos of the steel-wheel panther interior, these were of the synthetic fabric type.  I used 3M masking tape for the covers.  Each of the three snaps was made with small styrene disks, superglued to the tape and then drilled to accept the pin (for lack of a better term).  I lost one during the process and thought that I'd leave it off to represent a little wear-and-tear on the vehicle.  I may need to do a little more blending on the fabric as I think the color changes are a little on the heavy side.  I'll also weather the bins a little when they're installed with the floor.  I also cut the rear portion of the floor to make it easier to install over the sponson bulkheads (again, for lack of the proper/correct term) on either side of the hull.  The four bins shown below are toward the front of the vehicle.

 

 

Lastly is a pretty bad photo of the overall floor.  You can see where I cut the floor out (along actual floor plate separation lines).  The ammo bins are just held in by friction at this point.  I'll glue them in later once I'm satisfied with how they look.

 

 

Well, that's it for now.  It's been a long time getting to this point and soon, I'll be done with the fighting compartment.  Thanks for looking in on my progress.

[josebagasteiz]

5 hours ago, Juggernut said:

Aquí hay algunas fotos de lo que he estado haciendo con este monstruo.

 

Pintado el elfenbien (marfil). Tuve la suerte de encontrar un libro con algunas tomas interiores muy buenas de un Panther con ruedas de acero de producción de MAN de septiembre de 1944. Pinté el elfenbien en las áreas donde se muestran las fotografías. Tenga en cuenta que varía de otros vehículos de MNH o Diamler Benz. En septiembre de 1944 fue cuando se ordenó a las fábricas que dejaran de pintar los interiores de varios colores (Panther Tank de Alemania, la búsqueda de la supervivencia de combate, Jentz, 1997). Más tarde, se les pidió que dejaran los interiores sin pintar por completo y luego restablecieron el elfenbien a principios de 1945. 

 

 

Instaló la bandeja y la caja. Necesita retocar algo de la imprimación marrón rojiza en la estructura que soporta estas dos piezas. En general, no creo que hayan salido tan mal. Baterías cementadas en sus respectivos lugares. Nota para cualquiera que construya este kit: Las baterías NO son simétricas, lo que significa que puede instalarlas incorrectamente. Las instrucciones no mencionan esto y tuve que invertir las baterías y las tapas de lo que muestran las instrucciones para colocarlas correctamente. Agregué cables de batería, pero no estoy del todo contento con el cable conductor de 0.030 pulgadas que usé; no parece ser lo suficientemente grueso. Demasiado tarde para volver atrás y cambiarlo ahora, tendrá que hacerlo. Las líneas de lubricación fueron un PITA gigante para insertarlas en sus respectivos accesorios y terminé dañando algunas más allá de la reparación, por lo que serán reemplazadas (en algún momento) con 0. Varilla de 020 pulgadas (ya sea de plástico o cobre) que se truncará debajo del casco, fuera de la vista. Con el piso en su lugar, no hay mucho que sea visible.

 

 

Carcasas instaladas debajo del piso del casco. Trumpeter proporciona el soporte, pero las correas y las hebillas tuvieron que rasparse. Cada una de las rondas perforantes de armadura (así como las rondas HE) tiene marcas en el proyectil. Tuve que crearlos usando la impresora de mi ALP y, aunque no son tan brillantes como creo que deberían ser, se pueden leer (de cerca). Las plantillas de los estuches venían en el kit.

 

 

Almacenamiento de municiones en el piso del vehículo. Descubrí que cada uno de los contenedores redondos tenía cubiertas de láminas de metal o de tela sintética que se usaban para evitar que el barro, la suciedad y otros escombros entraran en las carcasas. Era importante mantener las rondas limpias o podrían hacer que el arma funcionara mal / se atascara ... no es algo bueno que suceda en combate. Trumpeter proporciona cubiertas para los contenedores, pero por lo que veo en las fotos del interior de la pantera con ruedas de acero, estas eran del tipo de tela sintética. Usé cinta adhesiva de 3M para las cubiertas. Cada uno de los tres broches se hizo con pequeños discos de estireno, superpuestos a la cinta y luego perforados para aceptar el pasador (a falta de un término mejor). Perdí uno durante el proceso y pensé que lo dejaría apagado para representar un pequeño desgaste del vehículo. Es posible que deba mezclar un poco más la tela, ya que creo que los cambios de color son un poco pesados. También resistiré un poco los contenedores cuando estén instalados con el piso. También corté la parte trasera del piso para facilitar la instalación sobre los mamparos esponjosos (nuevamente, por falta del término adecuado / correcto) a ambos lados del casco. Los cuatro contenedores que se muestran a continuación están hacia la parte delantera del vehículo.

 

 

Por último, hay una foto bastante mala del piso en general. Puede ver dónde corté el piso (a lo largo de las líneas de separación reales de la placa del piso). En este punto, los contenedores de munición se retienen por fricción. Los pegaré más tarde una vez que esté satisfecho con su apariencia.

 

 

Bueno eso es todo por ahora. Ha pasado mucho tiempo para llegar a este punto y pronto terminaré con el compartimento de combate. Gracias por ver mi progreso.

Good job!! 

 

I also thought of replacing the rigid covers of the projectile compartments with something that simulated the fabric, but in my case I thought of doing it with tin foil. 

[Juggernut]

6 minutes ago, josebagasteiz said:

Good job!! 

 

I also thought of replacing the rigid covers of the projectile compartments with something that simulated the fabric, but in my case I thought of doing it with tin foil. 

 

Thanks for the kind words.  I too also thought of using aluminum tape (a bit thicker than foil though) but settled on masking tape as it was easier to work with.

[Uncarina]

Really nice Tim! I followed a similar approach, but brush painted mine. I think yours turned out better!

 

Cheers, Tom