Hong Kong Models - 1/32 Do335 A-10 Trainer announced

[Cees Broere]

Not to mention the canopy release levers which had some gruesome results.

[Dave Williams]

2 hours ago, Cees Broere said:

Not to mention the canopy release levers which had some gruesome results.

From what I’ve read, that was a myth that never actually happened.

[Cees Broere]

I have read several report stating this. 

[LSP_Mike]

Sources?

[abbadur]

Can someone explain the differences of second cockpits between Zoukei Muras A-12 and HK Models A-10, please?

And in addition: Is there somewhere to find a comparison betweene ZM A-0 and HK Do 335 A, please ?

 

[Paul2660]

Advantage to the HK version, is the addition of the nose weight.  I assume they will include it with this kit as it's in all the others.  And it's not clear plastic.  Not a fan of that. 

 

Paul C 

[Mark P]

The linked review states this kit includes the nose weight.

 

Mark Proulx

[Dave Williams]

42 minutes ago, abbadur said:

Can someone explain the differences of second cockpits between Zoukei Muras A-12 and HK Models A-10, please?

And in addition: Is there somewhere to find a comparison betweene ZM A-0 and HK Do 335 A, please ?

 

The A-10 and A-12 were both dual conversion trainers.  The only difference that I’m aware of is change in the model of the DB603 engine used, but I don’t think that there are any obvious visual differences.

 

For the differences between the ZM and HKM kits, the ZM kits are a little more detailed (including a lot of internal structural detail that will never be seen, unless you choose to open up panels, or leave the fuselage unpainted), a bit more expensive, and don’t include the nose weight.  The ZM kits also have clear plastic fuselages that many people don’t care for.  The HKM kit is a bit easier build than the ZM kit, mostly because it doesn’t have all of the internal structure.  One annoyance of the HKM kit is that they don’t have any detail on the front annular radiator face, but aftermarket can fix that.

[abbadur]

great explanations, thank you all.

[MikeMaben]

On 10/25/2020 at 6:59 PM, Dave Williams said:

                                   “Relevance” doesn’t always dictate what’s popular.

Relevance, historical significance, nationality, combat performance,

just a few of the things that play 'no' role in my preference.

               

                It's strictly coolness factor, nothing more, nothing less.

                              

[MikeC]

On 10/26/2020 at 10:14 AM, Cees Broere said:

Not to mention the canopy release levers which had some gruesome results.

 

On 10/26/2020 at 12:15 PM, Dave Williams said:

From what I’ve read, that was a myth that never actually happened.

 

On 10/26/2020 at 12:43 PM, Cees Broere said:

I have read several report stating this. 

 

On 10/26/2020 at 12:49 PM, LSP_Mike said:

Sources?

 

Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown for one: it was in a magazine article many years ago (Aeroplane Monthly iirc, they ran an article by him on one German aircraft most months back in the day).  I have his book Wings of the Luftwaffe upstairs in the modelling cave, I'll have a dig later and see if I can find it in there.

[MikeC]

42 minutes ago, MikeC said:

 

 

 

 

Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown for one: it was in a magazine article many years ago (Aeroplane Monthly iirc, they ran an article by him on one German aircraft most months back in the day).  I have his book Wings of the Luftwaffe upstairs in the modelling cave, I'll have a dig later and see if I can find it in there.

Found it.  It's only hearsay, but make of it what you will.  "I had heard many stories, all second- or third-hand, of the Do 335's astonishingly high performance and also its range of teething troubles.  Particularly fascinating was the story that when two prototypes came to grief the bodies of their pilots were found to be devoid of arms.  The story, recounted to me by a German pilot, alleged that the loss of the upper limbs had resulted when the unfortunate victims had gripped two inclined levers at cockpit sill level and pulled them aft to activate the hood jettison system.  This action released the hood effectively, but since the levers were attached to the hood, a firm grip meant, so the story went, that the hands and arms were wrenched off with the rapidly-departing canopy.  This story made something of an impression on me, and I clambered into the cockpit filled with curiosity.  Sure enough, the notorious hood jettison levers were there.”  P61,  Wings of the Luftwaffe (Revised edition),  Capt Eric “Winkle” Brown CBE DSC AFC RN.

Edited October 30, 2020 by MikeC

[Radub]

1 hour ago, MikeC said:

Found it.  It's only hearsay, but make of it what you will.  "I had heard many stories, all second- or third-hand, of the Do 335's astonishingly high performance and also its range of teething troubles.  Particularly fascinating was the story that when two prototypes came to grief the bodies of their pilots were found to be devoid of arms.  The story, recounted to me by a German pilot, alleged that the loss of the upper limbs had resulted when the unfortunate victims had gripped two inclined levers at cockpit sill level and pulled them aft to activate the hood jettison system.  This action released the hood effectively, but since the levers were attached to the hood, a firm grip meant, so the story went, that the hands and arms were wrenched off with the rapidly-departing canopy.  This story made something of an impression on me, and I clambered into the cockpit filled with curiosity.  Sure enough, the notorious hood jettison levers were there.”  P61,  Wings of the Luftwaffe (Revised edition),  Capt Eric “Winkle” Brown CBE DSC AFC RN.

 

I have a copy of Eric Brown's "Wings of the Luftwaffe" with the binding almost falling apart, I read it so many times. I remember reading that story about the "legend of the two armless test pilots" and all I could think of was not "what kind of grip did those guys have?". No! My thought was "there was a S_E_C_O_N_D armless test pilot!?". 

Radu

Edited October 30, 2020 by Radub

[pvanroy]

On 10/26/2020 at 11:14 AM, Cees Broere said:

Not to mention the canopy release levers which had some gruesome results.

 

I'm afraid that's just a tall story. As Radu already pointed out: anyone's grip strength will fail long before enough force is reached to dismember a joint. While with the right technique or through sheer brute force it's fairly easy to dislocate joints and fracture even major bones, dismembering a joint through brute force is very difficult - medieval drawn-and-quarterings would often take hours. Also consider that, if memory serves me right, the world-record for a single handed deadlift is something like 360 kg, the record for a raw double handed lift is something like 460 kg, and with straps its somewhere around 500 kg - and none of these guys lost their arms in the process 

 

As far as the Do 335 goes, the most up-to-date and comprehensive book about the aircraft is Smith et al. (2017), and all the information below is summarised from that reference.

 

The story about people losing their arms in ejections from the Do 335 is possibly influenced by the death of Werner Altrogge during a test flight of the Do 335 V2 on 16 April 1944. The rear engine of the aircraft caught fire, and after the fire extinguishing system failed, Altrogge decided to eject. However, due to a design error, when Altrogge released the canopy, it hit him in the head, fracturing his skull and rendering him unconscious (if not killing him outright). The burning aircraft subsequently crashed out of control near Buxheim. Following this accident, the canopy was redesigned.

 

Two other, equally unsuccessful attempts at ejection were made from the Do 335. In April 1945, a Uffz. Bahlmann suffered a rear engine fire near Prague, and decided to bail out. On releasing the canopy, is also hit him in the head, although without any severe consequences. However, when he attempted to activate the ejector seat, nothing happened. At that point, the engine fire had subsided, and Bahlmann decided to make an emergency landing. However, upon touching down, the bump from hitting the runway belatedly activated the seat, causing Bahlmann to be ejected from the speeding aircraft onto the runway. He survived with serious injuries, and the aircraft was wrecked.

 

The final unsuccesful attempt at ejection was made by Heinz Fischer on 26 April 1945, when he tried to defect to Switzerland in the Do 335 V9. Having made a navigational error, he ran out of fuel over France and decided to eject. This time, the canopy separation was trouble free, but neither the explosive charges intended to blow away the vertical tailplanes and rear prop, nor the ejector seat functioned, so he abandoned the aircraft in the regular way and survived. The V9 crashed in the Vosges area.

 

Three other lethal in-flight emergencies with the Do 335 are documented:

 

- Alfred Wollank of EKdo 335, who crashed with the Do 335 V4 near Bonefeld, possibly shot down by U.S. fighters on 24 December 1944;

- Robert Mossbacher, who was killed in the crash of Do 335 A-0 W.Nr. 240106 due to a front engine fire on 20 February 1945;

- Alan Hards, who died at the controls of Do 335 A-10 W.Nr 240112 on 18 January 1946 following a catastrophic rear engine fire.

 

In none of these cases, the emergency ejection mechanism was involved.

 

Post-war French tests of the ejection mechanism with the Do 335 M17 also showed it to be unsatisfactory. Apart from the issue with the canopy potentially hitting the pilot on release, the ejection procedure was also very complicated: the pilot first had to push three buttons in sequence to activate the explosive charges for top fin, prop, and lower fin; then pull both canopy handles to unlock and release the canopy; disconnect the microphone; arm the seat; assume the ejection posture with feet placed on the seat supports; and pull the ejection handle.

 

As an aside: probably at least 11 Do 335 A-10 two-seat trainer production aircraft were completed by converting A-0 airframes, in addition to the one dual-control prototype that was built (V 11). At the very least the V11 and first two production A-10 machines did take to the air, and probably more. Four machines may have been delivered to 4.(F)/Aufklärungsgruppe Nacht.

 

Reference:

 

Smith, J.R., Creek, E.J. & Roletschek, G. 2017. Dornier Do 335 Pfeil/Arrow. Manchester: Crecy Publishing. 288 pp. [This is a revised and updated edition of the earlier Classic Publications book by the same authors, and bearing the same title]

 

Edited October 30, 2020 by pvanroy
Typo...

[Dave Williams]

So, has anyone seen this kit actually in stock and for sale anywhere?

Edited November 12, 2020 by Dave Williams