Curtiss P-36A Hawk - 2/LT Phil Rasmussen - Pearl Harbor [1/32 SH]

[Alex]

31 minutes ago, LSP_Kevin said:

 you really don't need to use a gloss black base coat unless you're using their high shine colours - specifically, Chrome, Airframe Aluminium, and Polished Aluminium. For any of the other varieties, it really makes no difference.

 

What's your preferred base layer for the other ones then?  Conventional primer?  Or even bare plastic?  I routinely use Mr Color lacquers straight on bare plastic but I thought I'd read that Alclad would not work well in that mode...

 

Thanks for the advice!

[LSP_Kevin]

1 hour ago, Alex said:

What's your preferred base layer for the other ones then?  Conventional primer?  Or even bare plastic?  I routinely use Mr Color lacquers straight on bare plastic but I thought I'd read that Alclad would not work well in that mode...

 

Thanks for the advice!

 

Ironically, I'm a bit of a convert to 'black basing' for weathered models, so I'm likely to still go with a black primer or base coat for most finishes these days, including natural metal. But otherwise, it's probably going to be Mr. Finishing Surfacer 1500, or the Tamiya Fine Surface Primer - but never bare plastic! I'm a 'prime everything' guy, so the only time you'll see me applying paint to bare plastic will be for interiors or tiny external details.

 

The way I think of natural metal finishes is this: in real life, most aren't highly-reflective, showroom-quality mirror finishes; in fact, most weather to a dull silver-grey, so using Alclad's high shine finishes is a waste of effort and money, unless you're trying to achieve said mirror finish - in which case they're essential. So, no high shine means no requirement for a black base, and I just generally default to Tamiya's AS-12 as a starting point. But I also like AK Interactive's Xtreme Metal range (definitely needs a primer), and have been experimenting with the metallics from SMS also. I like the finishes you can get with Mr. Metal Color, but find the paint too fragile once applied, and it seems to evaporate right out of jar once you open it!

 

Kev

[Alex]

Great - thanks for the details!  That will be really helpful for the experiments I have planned.

[Thunnus]

I don't know if it is related but I've had issues with Alclad clear coats (both gloss and matt) that never seem to dry fully... remaining tacky even days and weeks after spraying.  Never could pinpoint the cause so I just moved on to other products.  No such issues with Alclad's Aqua Gloss, which I love.

 

Although the non high-gloss Alclad colors don't require a black base, what is underneath DOES make a difference and color shades as well as differences in matt/gloss finish can alter the way the Alclad coat on top turns out.  Best to test prior to final application!

[Sakai]

Compliments on you're deductive reasoning Alex. Makes us all a better model artist. 

I'm learning a great deal from builders like you, Thank you.

Bill

[Alex]

13 minutes ago, Sakai said:

Compliments on you're deductive reasoning Alex. Makes us all a better model artist. 

I'm learning a great deal from builders like you, Thank you.

Bill

If others can learn from my mistakes, all the better!

[Alex]

28 minutes ago, Thunnus said:

 

Although the non high-gloss Alclad colors don't require a black base, what is underneath DOES make a difference and color shades as well as differences in matt/gloss finish can alter the way the Alclad coat on top turns out.  Best to test prior to final application!

 

Very helpful - thanks!  I am thinking that I will experiment with both the black undercoats I mentioned above plus gray Mr Surfacer 1500, which I use as my go-to primer most times, before deciding how to go forward with my Mustang.  Plan to practice a bunch before I get there...

 

Your comment has me wondering (trying to run before walking perhaps) about deliberately altering base color or texture e.g. on specific panels before applying the Alclad...

[Alex]

32 minutes ago, Thunnus said:

what is underneath DOES make a difference and color shades as well as differences in matt/gloss finish can alter the way the Alclad coat on top turns out.  

 

And actually that's illustrated in one of my photos.

 

The base on the horizontal stabilizers is gloss black, on the elevators matte gray.  Same Alclad Aluminum on top.

[AlbertD]

Sorry to see the issues with the paint. I had the same issue with the Alclad gloss black primer not really curing well. I started using MRP Super Gloss Black under Alclad. It dries hard in just a couple of hours and Alclad goes over it very well. It also goes on thin and levels out great. Any specks can be sanded out and re-sprayed and it blends right in.

[LSP_Kevin]

21 hours ago, Alex said:

 

And actually that's illustrated in one of my photos.

 

The base on the horizontal stabilizers is gloss black, on the elevators matte gray.  Same Alclad Aluminum on top.

 

That's a great illustration of the way that the base colour can change or influence the top colour. But by way of contrast, here's an image from my review of the AK Interactive Xtreme Metal range:

 

 

The wing on the left is primed with Tamiya Fine Grey primer, while I used Mr. Surfacer 1500 Black on the other wing half. Only the brass seemed to be affected by the underlying colour, and even then, it looks better over the grey than the black. So, I think the obvious conclusion to draw is that the extent to which the base colour affects the colour of the top coat is dependent on the brand of metal paints you're using, as they're not all the same. It seems to me that Alclad is in fact the most susceptible to this effect.

 

Kev

Edited December 17, 2020 by LSP_Kevin
typos

[dennismcc]

That's a shame Alex, the build although as usual challenging went well, apart from the paint flaking and cracking on the undersides it still looks great, with such a solid build as a base one day it may be time to refinish the paintwork and add new markings. I did this a couple of times on old models and it was very satisfying.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[MikeMaben]

I can't see how a basecoat color can effect the topcoat color unless you let the

basecoat show thru in a marbled pattern (agreeing with Kevin here). The colors

on your elevator pic look like they are more affected by reflectivity than the

basecoat color. Obviously matte vs gloss makes a distinct difference as it does

with colors other than silver as well. For example, I used MRP white primer for

a basecoat on my Mustang. When I look at NMF I see more white that black.

I wanted the semi-gloss basecoat as I didn't want a shiny surface. So it's the

'finish' of the basecoat more than the 'color'. A gloss coat under silver provides

a greater reflectivity. No hills and valleys to disperse the light.

 

... that's 'my' observation, a little long winded but I hope it helps.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by MikeMaben

[jeroen_R90S]

It may be a combiation of both, as I tend to put on Alclad very thinly the colour does seem to matter. Matt-versus gloss also matters, having just painted the exhausts of my Intruder with Alclad Jet Exhaust over Mr Surfacer 1200 grey I noticed some areas are more shiny then others. I polished the Surfacer beforehand, but, apparently not evenly everywhere. Fortunately not a lot to be seen on on Intruders' exhaust, but it is something I have to keep in mind.