JetMads 1/32 Viggen

[Markjames1968]

It doesnt have to be a scam for it not to work or come to fruition,they can try and fail,

what i need someone to do to convince me is to explain the figures because theres nomway i can see that they can make it work... anecdotally, this is evidenced by the fact that they have brought forward preorders on the learjet which would give a cash  injection, as would changing the next kit to a viggen again even though they initially said this wouldnt happen for some years

 

many will say they are reacting to the market, great, if thats the case (and i dont think it is) but someone still needs to explain the figures

 

94000 dollars

 

wages for a team of at least 5 for six months

taxes

resin to cast 500 kits 

3d printing resin 

casting resin

silicone

2 a4 decal sheets x 500 

foam box inserts

Boxes,

instructions

cad licenses

premises

 

You could assume they have very little if any capital  other than what the owner put in at start based on production of 1 kit

 

I have no doubt at all that this is NOT  scam BUT am convinced it wont work  BUT happily handed over my 190 quid incase it does but wrote it off at the same time .........

[Derek B]

Mark,

 

I do not know if your assumptions of their finances or business model is anything like close to reality (unless we are part of the JETMADS organisation, we will not know for certain), however, they have to be given the benefit of the doubt for the time being, so a 'glass half full' may be a better outlook than the 'glass is half empty' for now!

 

I hope that in the fullness of time, you (and all others lucky modellers who have placed money and orders) will receive your Viggen kit and that it will delight you (alas, as much as I would love one, it is out of my budget, so I may have to resort to scratch building one for myself for a large scale version).

 

Best regards

 

Derek

Edited April 15, 2021 by Derek B

[Markjames1968]

10 minutes ago, Derek B said:

Mark,

 

I do not know if your assumptions of their finances or business model is anything like close to reality (unless we are part of the JETMADS organisation, we will not know for certain), however, they have to be given the benefit of the doubt for the time being, so a 'glass half full' may be a better outlook than the 'glass is half empty' for now!

 

I hope that in the fullness of time, you (and all others lucky modellers who have placed money and orders) will receive your Viggen kit and that it will delight you (alas, as much as I would love one, it is out of my budget, so I may have to resort to scratch building one for myself for a large scale version).

 

Best regards

 

Derek

Theres no assumptions, only the fact that there is a fixed income from this kit and a set of fixed outgoings and the figures dont tally 

i am a glass half full person, i paid for my SH whirlwind months ago, my lukgraph L33 weeks ago, this last year, but have also seen things like this fail on many occasions.

im not screaming at them for a refund in the hope that it will work but am in a fortunate enough position of mentally having written off the money... you have to ask yourself wy they run their premorder payment thing like they do..... no cash flow? 
 

SH didnt ask everone to stump up 70 quid to get the whirlwind going, lukgraph take funds only a couple weeks before delivery, they have cashflow from other projects sales .....

 

[Derek B]

3 minutes ago, Markjames1968 said:

Theres no assumptions, only the fact that there is a fixed income from this kit and a set of fixed outgoings and the figures dont tally 

i am a glass half full person, i paid for my SH whirlwind months ago, my lukgraph L33 weeks ago, this last year, but have also seen things like this fail on many occasions.

im not screaming at them for a refund in the hope that it will work but am in a fortunate enough position of mentally having written off the money... you have to ask yourself wy they run their premorder payment thing like they do..... no cash flow? 
 

SH didnt ask everone to stump up 70 quid to get the whirlwind going, lukgraph take funds only a couple weeks before delivery, they have cashflow from other projects sales .....

 

 

It is fantastic to know that you are doing more than your bit to try and support these (relatively small) modelling producers, so kudos to you for that fact alone. I hope that in the fullness of time that you (and others) shall receive all of your ordered kits...undoubtedly, only time will tell, but I am as hopeful as the rest of you.

 

Regards

 

Derek

[Gary Needham]

Markjames 1968.

 

Mark, Your figures and context to the project are sound and like you, I have placed an order from a position of the worst that could happen is that at the end of the 'journey' I get no Viggen kit; just like I didn't have one before embarking upon it!

 

Whilst the consensus on the thread in reply to your posts seems to be you are a 'half empty' sort of guy in this respect (I do not share that sentiment BTW) and other that the Kelly's Heroes character 'Oddball' type submissions from others of "Have a little faith baby!", it is interesting that no-one has even attempted to dismantle your financial submissions regarding the viability of the project and production costings given the relatively modest outlay made in advance.

 

Maybe someone on the thread may wish to dismantle or address your production costings rather than casually dismiss you....or someone from JETMADS themselves perhaps?

 

Gary  

[Out2gtcha]

For me personally, this has nothing what so ever to do with any figures or cost calculations, nor is this a casual dismissal of anyone's opinions. Opinions are all we have here.

 No one including myself actually know what is going on in that respect with JetMads.

Could I too be wrong? Of course, we are all only human......................However I am going with the evidence here. 

[Dave Williams]

This all seems valueless speculation to me.  The kits will either come out, or they won’t.  Until it happens definitively, we won’t know either way.

 

I will say that no one here knows much about JETMADS, and speculation on production costs seems mostly on what it would cost someone to do something similar based on the business model of their choosing.  How you think it works could be wrong.  Maybe it’s really a small group of guys who have real jobs and only do this part time and as a labor of love, so that there are no wages.  Maybe one of them has a job with free access to CAD software.  Maybe one of them has a business that prints 3D parts, so the printers are already bought and paid for, so that the only “cost” is their (free) time and the resin.  And, who knows what the taxes are like in Turkey.  When someone says that the math doesn’t work out for 94000 dollars, all that means is that they personally can’t get it to work for that amount, not that someone else can’t.

[alaninaustria]

Delays happen, don't forget it is also the month of Ramadan in the Islamic world. This could also be a factor in the delay. 

Good things take time...

Be patient,

Cheers

Alan

 

[Stevepd]

It will come, I haven’t given it a second thought it won’t. Put it this way, it gives me more time to finish the current build.

[Kagemusha]

1 hour ago, Gary Needham said:

 

Maybe someone on the thread may wish to dismantle or address your production costings rather than casually dismiss you....or someone from JETMADS themselves perhaps?

 

 

 

The business model for the Viggen will no doubt be essentially the same for the Skystreak, there's a reason why manufacturing has diminished in the West, and a business model for one in Turkey will be completely different from one in the UK, added to that does anyone here know the intricacies of JetMads production operation, and why should they have to explain such a thing on here?

 

A couple of years ago I was talking to Danny Cormans, of Daco, and he told me roughly how much he had invested in the 1/32 Fouga Magister, I have no doubt he's more frustrated than anyone at it's delayed release, but these thing happen.

[JMcD]

As a happy owner of two Skystreaks I did not for a moment and do not also now think that they will fail. What I like most from the start about these guys is their open, frank and sincere communication. Covid is a trouble to us all humans and it is only natural they got it too, and in fact they avoided it even further than I expected. They let us all know they now have that trouble and I can see their dismay in their message. So I think, given the work and effort they put in so far, they deserve our support if some more waiting is how we give it.

 

There's no way of knowing their team setup and financials, but there's one thing you forget: In addition to the Viggen, they sold out the Skystreak too. I do not think they are financiallly troubled because their reservation confirmation for the Learjet said they will accept preorders only after start shipping the Viggens. 

 

And second run of the Viggen does not replace the Learjet. I've reserved two new Viggens fron the second run and the confirmation email said the new Viggens will be produced in parallel with the Learjet.

 

All in all, I think we are facing a manufacturer with sincere act and good intentions. Airllines and big corporations are either struggling financially or collapsing structurally; Jetmads people are just saying they need this time to shake the disease to restart their production and they are frankly letting us know, that's it.

 

 

 

[adameliclem]

3 hours ago, alaninaustria said:

Delays happen, don't forget it is also the month of Ramadan in the Islamic world. This could also be a factor in the delay. 

Good things take time...

Be patient,

Cheers

Alan

 

Hi Alan,

 

1. Not all Turks are Muslim.

2. Not all Muslim Turks are religiously observant.

3. There is, generally speaking, no prohibition against working during Ramadan, though many observant (and non-observant) people of the faith do take some time off from work during the celebration of Eid, which begins in mid-May.

 

There’s no reason to think that this delay is caused by anything other than some Jetmads staff contracting a potentially life-threatening disease. I hope they get well and get back to the work they enjoy.
 

“Be patient” is wise counsel.

 

Cheers,

Adam

[Matti]

Wise words JMcD and Adam, wise words.

 

[mattcour]

I do not think that has anything to with Ramadan. They would just say they do not work in Ramadan and we would respect it. But all Muslims I know work in this month.

it is about fasting, not working.

so it is totally irrelevant.

 

If you were someone who had no intention of delivering a kit, would you design 15 decal options on two A4 sheets after you already cashed all the money in and then make Cartograf print them?

 

My nose gets no bad smell at all and I take they are after their word. I would like to build the Viggen as soon as possible but after waiting all the big fish all those years in vain, there is not so much of an issue if I'll wait a few months more. At least I know someone is making it, sooner or later. 

 

Jetmads people, I hope you all get well soon and give us your lovely Viggen.

 

 

 

[Bob MDC]

We are living in new times and there is so many variables, a world wide shortage of hi-tech chemicals,a big ball's up in the Suez Canal, postal services slow if you are waiting for a spare part 

We are having minor delay problems and (on the MDC side) we are low tech, so the companies with more tech than us !!!! a few minor problems will escalate up the line.

Production has it's headaches no matter what you do I have had my fair share of them in model production and Coal production.

 

And if you have production in your job title "the buck stops here"

 

Bob