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F-4 Phantom SEA factory camouflage pattern info?


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16 hours ago, AlbertD said:

You know, you guys are making it really hard to have any shelf space. Do you know how big a 32nd Phantom is?

 

I certainly do. I have four F-4E kits sitting here, Three Revell and one Tamiya, with the hope of also eventually adding the F-4C/D, and F-4J. I'd also really like to get my hands on the old CAM F-4B & F-4N conversions. At least I think it was CAM that did them.

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1 hour ago, Ben Brown said:

Thunderbirds flying their Lizard jets prior to getting their show birds! Note the 1 on the leader’s intake and the red, white, and blue tail scallops.

 

Ben

Exactly right...every winter practice season, the Thunderbirds borrowed "Lizard" (SEA-Camouflaged) F-4Es from operational units while their show planes went through off-season overhauls and repaints. Some of the lizard F-4Es were pulled from George, and some from Nellis...probably others, as well. Former Thunderbird crew chief Michael Jacobsen has some stunning photos of his time with their F-4Es and first year of T-38s...

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17 hours ago, AlbertD said:

Looking at the wear and tear on the airplane the windshield looks like a factory fresh replacement.

Although that did happen occasionally, looking at this photo, I'm more inclined to believe that it's a simple case of the field-applied camouflage paint peeled off the windscreen frame, leaving the faded, light gull gray original paint, and even some bare aluminum framing as well.

 

When the instruction came down in early 1966 to apply the new SEA camouflage scheme to the F-4Cs operating out of the three bases in Vietnam and Thailand (Da Nang, Cam Ranh Bay, and Ubon RTAB), they did the job as fast as they could. I think most jets rotated through Clark AB, PI to get the new paint; but I think I've seen photos of a field paint shop at Cam Ranh Bay and Da Nang as well...and unlike that F-100 video referenced earlier in this thread, they didn't prep the old LGG paint or markings at all: no sanding and no primer. They just shot the three upper camouflage colors (tan, light green, and dark green) over the upper surfaces, painted out the large USAF and national insignia on the undersides, and replaced all the national insignia with the new standard 15" stars and bars (usually, but there are many photos of jets that didn't have one on the underside of the right wing; and even at least one with it applied upside down).

 

Because these aircraft were so poorly prepped for the new camouflage, the new paint peeled and chipped rapidly, forcing the units to do a lot of re-touch and patch-work re-dos...and the 8 TFW guys at Ubon didn't seem to have any of the regulation FS numbered paints on-hand, so you see wild color variations on their touch-ups; and also a lot of olive drab in various faded shades, sprayed on with cans by the crew chiefs.

 

This F-4C is at Da Nang; and I think the wear on the top of the radome gives a hint at how brutal the SEA sun was on that early rubber-coating formula and the fiberglass underneath. I'm inclined to believe this points to all the replacement radomes seen on early block F-4Cs without the early/unused IR-fairing underneath.

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1 hour ago, LSP_K2 said:

 

I certainly do. I have four F-4E kits sitting here, Three Revell and one Tamiya, with the hope of also eventually adding the F-4C/D, and F-4J. I'd also really like to get my hands on the old CAM F-4B & F-4N conversions. At least I think it was CAM that did them.

For now I just have the J model that's on the bench right now but I absolutely want at SEA camo version of some kind.

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22 minutes ago, Jennings Heilig said:

 

Wait 'till you see what we have up our sleeves on the 8th TFW stuff! :)

I'll keep an eye out for it for sure. Like I really need an excuse to get another Phantom kit.:D

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8 hours ago, Jennings Heilig said:

 

These early Phantoms all had a light colored outline around all the glass panels on the metal frames.  I don't know exactly what it was or what its purpose was, but it's there on every one of them, even in factory fresh camouflage.  Per Chris, it continued into F-4E production.  It doesn't appear on later F-4Es and Js, so something changed in St. Louis.

 

 

b4kV2C.png

 

This is phenolic fibreglass reinforcing tape applied under the transparencies.

It was customarily visible on McAir new deliveries.

It was often left unmasked and painted over during resprays.

Because the longer windshield quarter panels became smaller in later long-nosed McDonnell-Douglas production, the quarter panels on earlier jets was — during depot maintenance — replaced by the shorter newer panels and contained within a sort of pale grey phenolic sheath, which was outside as well as inside.

 

I have been beating my head against the wall over this for four years but it always falls on deaf ears. If any Crew Chief or PDM maintainer knows better, please chime in.

 

Bottom line: decals are needed for these, even if placed on the outside.

 

Tony 

 

 

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1 hour ago, AlbertD said:

I'll keep an eye out for it for sure. Like I really need an excuse to get another Phantom kit.:D

 

I just surfed Kitlinx a few hours ago for 1:32 F-4 stuff, and was somewhat amazed at the variety of decals currently available, and I'm sure that's nowhere near all of it; CAM themselves did gobs of Navy and Marine birds. Still an extraordinarily popular aircraft after all these years. I certainly miss seeing them flying around here all the time like they used to, I can certainly say that without hesitation.

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1 hour ago, AlbertD said:

I'll keep an eye out for it for sure. Like I really need an excuse to get another Phantom kit.:D

 

I seem to need virtually no excuse to grab another Phantom kit (or book), none at all.

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11 hours ago, Tony T said:

 

This is phenolic fibreglass reinforcing tape applied under the transparencies.

It was customarily visible on McAir new deliveries.

It was often left unmasked and painted over during resprays.

Because the longer windshield quarter panels became smaller in later long-nosed McDonnell-Douglas production, the quarter panels on earlier jets was — during depot maintenance — replaced by the shorter newer panels and contained within a sort of pale grey phenolic sheath, which was outside as well as inside.

 

I have been beating my head against the wall over this for four years but it always falls on deaf ears. If any Crew Chief or PDM maintainer knows better, please chime in.

 

Bottom line: decals are needed for these, even if placed on the outside.

 

Tony 

 

 

 

The different windscreen side panel shape is detailed in Jumpei Temma's blog here: LINK  Yet another F-4 thing I didn't know about until recently!  

 

Ben

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It's due to the short nose types being based on Navy aircraft, and the top of the nose was flattened for better over the nose visibility.

Below is an F-4C 63-7477, but there were no engineering changes in that area from the Navy F-4B it was derived from.

 

photo credit: Mike Lawson

63-7477.jpg?d=300820225853

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On 30 August 2020 at 10:04 PM, Chek said:

It's due to the short nose types being based on Navy aircraft, and the top of the nose was flattened for better over the nose visibility.

Below is an F-4C 63-7477, but there were no engineering changes in that area from the Navy F-4B it was derived from.

 

photo credit: Mike Lawson

63-7477.jpg?d=300820225853

 

That has been adapted to take the shorter quarter panels. If you look at the tips you'll see small slivers of green where some kind of sheath or fillet has been fitted. It's easier to see on grey RAF Phantoms later in their career. 

 

Tony 

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