Tamiya F-4J Phantom VMFA-232 Red Devils *Finished*

[Brett M]

On the two photos, are they the same jet? I’m seeing 3796 and 3791 on the rear fuselage. The second photo, the BuNo isn’t clear enough to read, unfortunately.

[AlbertD]

22 minutes ago, Brett M said:

On the two photos, are they the same jet? I’m seeing 3796 and 3791 on the rear fuselage. The second photo, the BuNo isn’t clear enough to read, unfortunately.

I believe they are different airplanes but they are the same squadron from the same time period. To me that still makes them a valuable reference. The plane I'm modeling is a different one still. The fuselage/hull number on mine is 13.

[ziggyfoos]

4 hours ago, Brett M said:

On the two photos, are they the same jet? I’m seeing 3796 and 3791 on the rear fuselage. The second photo, the BuNo isn’t clear enough to read, unfortunately.

They are different, I meant to include only as general examples. 

[chuck540z3]

Checking several photos, it appears that it is a timing thing, with early 70's having no paint on the chute door, while later examples, which are more numerable, have it painted.  My apologies to ziggyfoos for the misdirection.  Examples:

 

1971- No paint

 

 

1974- No paint

 

 

 

1977- painted, although who knows if this is actually correct

 

 

 

1989- painted

 

 

Conclusion:  If you want early 70's accuracy, go with the metallic look like ziggyfoos said.

 

Cheers,

Chuck

 

[AlbertD]

15 minutes ago, chuck540z3 said:

Checking several photos, it appears that it is a timing thing, with early 70's having no paint on the chute door, while later examples, which are more numerable, have it painted.  My apologies to ziggyfoos for the misdirection.  Examples:

 

1971- No paint

 

 

1974- No paint

 

 

 

1977- painted, although who knows if this is actually correct

 

 

 

1989- painted

 

 

Conclusion:  If you want early 70's accuracy, go with the metallic look like ziggyfoos said.

 

Cheers,

Chuck

 

Where do you guys find all these great photos? I must have looked at 1000 photos and didn’t see anything like these. Is there search method?

[chuck540z3]

5 hours ago, AlbertD said:

Where do you guys find all these great photos? I must have looked at 1000 photos and didn’t see anything like these. Is there search method?

 

 

Google is your friend, especially when you hit the "Images" tab.  Here is the search for your subject where you will find some chutes painted occasionally, but they are much later than the early 70's.

 

VFMA-232 F-4 Phantom

 

And here is a search of all versions of F-4 Phantoms, where you will find that most chute doors are painted, but most are also more recent pics like the ones I posted above.

 

F-4 Phantom

 

Having poked around for these pics, it comes to my mind that the chute door may be aluminum while the other panels forward of it are titanium, so over time they started to paint it for corrosion protection?  It's also a bit different color than the other panels, making the determination of light grey paint vs bare metal tough to decide, especially with old grainy photographs.

 

You also find some cool stuff like this VFMA-232 bird that had a bad day, but it appears the air crew survived by ejecting.  First guy to say, "That will just buff out!", will lose a small and very important kit part to the carpet monster. 

 

 

Cheers,

Chuck

[AlbertD]

4 minutes ago, chuck540z3 said:

First guy to say, "That will just buff out!", will lose a small and very important kit part to the carpet monster. 

 

 

Cheers,

Chuck

OK, I won't say it but that is another great weathering reference. Thanks Chuck.

Edited September 19, 2020 by AlbertD

[stusbke]

2 hours ago, AlbertD said:

OK, I won't say it but that is another great weathering reference. Thanks Chuck.

well do remember when it looks like that it crashed LOL

 

Cheers

Frederick Jacobs

[Michael931080]

Oh come on now!  That will definitely..............................................

 

 

 

 

 

 

Never Mind! 

[Finn]

Only thing i could find in ref to the above pic of the accident a/c:

 

6 Oct 1972 WT-15 sustained a damaged stabilator from cable slap following an M21 arrestment. Arrestment was made due to a utility hydraulic failure. (VMFA-232 incident 5-731)

 

Jari

[AlbertD]

19 minutes ago, Finn said:

Only thing i could find in ref to the above pic of the accident a/c:

 

6 Oct 1972 WT-15 sustained a damaged stabilator from cable slap following an M21 arrestment. Arrestment was made due to a utility hydraulic failure. (VMFA-232 incident 5-731)

 

Jari

Thanks for that bit of history. Would they consider that plane repairable? It does not look like any real structural damage aside from the tail fin being ripped off.

[ziggyfoos]

26 minutes ago, Finn said:

Only thing i could find in ref to the above pic of the accident a/c:

 

6 Oct 1972 WT-15 sustained a damaged stabilator from cable slap following an M21 arrestment. Arrestment was made due to a utility hydraulic failure. (VMFA-232 incident 5-731)

That's not the same aircraft. 5814 in that pic is from 1969 in their earlier Vietnam deployment (can also be seen it is their earlier scheme, black nose, fuselage insignia, and would've had large slanted WT on tail) 

5814 ended up crashing in 1970 (stricken).

 

[Finn]

58 minutes ago, ziggyfoos said:

That's not the same aircraft. 5814 in that pic is from 1969 in their earlier Vietnam deployment (can also be seen it is their earlier scheme, black nose, fuselage insignia, and would've had large slanted WT on tail) 

5814 ended up crashing in 1970 (stricken).

 

I also found this:

 

F-4J-35-MC Phantom II/Bu. 155814

• VMFA-232 as WT-15.
• 1970: VF-121.
• 9/14/1970: Crashed near San Diego, CA

 

So was it with 232 or 121 when it crashed?

 

Jari

[ziggyfoos]

10 hours ago, Finn said:

I also found this:

 

F-4J-35-MC Phantom II/Bu. 155814

• VMFA-232 as WT-15.
• 1970: VF-121.
• 9/14/1970: Crashed near San Diego, CA

 

So was it with 232 or 121 when it crashed?

 

Jari

I'd imagine VF-121 info from that Forgotten Jets entry is correct if the date/location is accurate too, it is also the same on Joe Baugher data as well. VMFA-232 was in Japan (with training to Philippines and Okinawa) from 1969-72 between their two F-4 deployments to SEA. 

 

sorry Albert for the diversions

[AlbertD]

10 hours ago, ziggyfoos said:

I'd imagine VF-121 info from that Forgotten Jets entry is correct if the date/location is accurate too, it is also the same on Joe Baugher data as well. VMFA-232 was in Japan (with training to Philippines and Okinawa) from 1969-72 between their two F-4 deployments to SEA. 

 

sorry Albert for the diversions

Don't worry about the slight thread drift. It adds context to the build. It's all about learning for me and I hope other get something from it as well.