Anthony in NZ Posted March 13, 2022 Author Share Posted March 13, 2022 So this weeks big push was to get the nosewheel well finished so I can move onto the dreaded cockpit area! This will be the part that makes or breaks this build....did I mention I hate cockpits??? LOL Just sealed everything up this arvo with a clearcoat, hope you guys like it, I'm calling it done Left wall Right side Down through the centre Overall effect And here is a side by side comparison of before and after Just enough to busy it up and not waste my entire life on an area no one will ever notice Thanks again chaps, your encouragement sure means a lot...I'm getting there! Cheers Anthony vvwse4, chuck540z3, LSP_Kevin and 19 others 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alain11 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 good job in this area, that works , and it's convincing !!!! !! It's not easy to add wires into this deep and narrow wells . Alain Anthony in NZ and Derek B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easixpedro Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Bummer about the wing, but totally fixable! And that nose wheel well is the bee's knees! Onward and upward. Totally looking forward to the cockpit, because you've been teasing us with all these super detailed shots of the gear wells, so I know the pit is going to be something special! Derek B and Anthony in NZ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvwse4 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, Anthony in NZ said: Thanks Rick, tempting alright...especially after this earlier today! Obviously wasnt paying attention and had my wing sitting on my airbrush clean up rag.....melted plastic Nothing I cant fix, but...ugh Anyhoo, this weeks update coming together Cheers Anthony Sucks..... The wheel well looks fantastic though Edited March 13, 2022 by vvwse4 Derek B and Anthony in NZ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony in NZ Posted March 13, 2022 Author Share Posted March 13, 2022 10 hours ago, alain11 said: good job in this area, that works , and it's convincing !!!! !! It's not easy to add wires into this deep and narrow wells . Alain Thanks Alain, appreciate that encouragement! Yes that plumbing in the nose was trying to my nerves. I got the shakes several times and so I drank more coffee which calmed me before the next round of shakes came on LOL 4 hours ago, easixpedro said: Bummer about the wing, but totally fixable! And that nose wheel well is the bee's knees! Onward and upward. Totally looking forward to the cockpit, because you've been teasing us with all these super detailed shots of the gear wells, so I know the pit is going to be something special! Thanks buddy! Yeah, bummer about the wing, but you're right, totally fixable. Hahaha, dont hold your breath on the cockpit just because the wheelwells came up ok! I will try! 32 minutes ago, vvwse4 said: Sucks..... The wheel well looks fantastic though Thanks Rick, you know well how setbacks can be a real test to your patience. Funnily enough I thought of your paint issues and thought that if you can get through that then I can mentally overcome this...true story! Thanks all, I'm not sure the coming week will show much as I will be doing test fitting and studying for the cockpit Cheers Anthony vvwse4, IainM and Derek B 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony in NZ Posted March 19, 2022 Author Share Posted March 19, 2022 Thanks Maru! Ok a bit of an update as the cockpits on Brit Tooms are simple yet different/complicated! I will explain. I have read on many forums the similarities to the Brit Toom cockpits being a mix of F-4B, J and C. I have spent most of the week studying this (as well as previous weeks) and I am only going to focus on the FG.1 as the FGR.2 is a whole other beast in the cockpit department. Rear cockpit first: I have to say a huge thank you to the BAPG and Tony Gigg on BM for their recent photo's. PBAG took some awesome pics of the back of XV582 (Black Mike FG.1), coupled with manuals available for free download on their FB page. These guys are awesome, along with the people on there, please support them and their bids to preserve several ex RAF Phantoms! Essentially the rear cockpit best matches a 'J' see some pics here courtesy of PBAG inside XV582 Right rear sidewall, with quilting removed, practically identical to 'J' Left rear sidewall, this is where things get different So the back end is pretty much 'J' from all the studies I have done (I am in no way purposing to be an expert, these are just my simple findings for us modellers) Now look at the front half I will do my best to explain in my simple terms.... Yellow circle is where a TESS Periscope goes through (more on that another day) Green circle is some sort of Accumulator box not seen on 'J's Blue circle is what is an AN/AJB7 & GVR10 Ground test switch/panel (whatever that all means LOL) Red circle is Oxygen controls, cabin altimeter, TACAN &V/UHF control panel (missing) So these seem to be the major differences for an RAF operated FG.1 post Mod's 408a &b. A RN operated one was very slightly different. As I say, I am no Phantom expert but am sharing what I am learning as I go in the hope it will be useful to future modellers On to the kit next update.... KiwiZac, scvrobeson, Landrotten Highlander and 5 others 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony in NZ Posted March 19, 2022 Author Share Posted March 19, 2022 So now what are we dealing with as regards cockpits, converting them and where to start?? Top to bottom Black Box/Avionix rear cockpit tub Aires F-4J/S cockpit set Kit parts in basic form My first issue is the Aires and Kit parts on the left side as the right and rear are practically the same. The wall/shelf that all of this equipment sit on is far too high, look how much lower the B Box one is (by the way, the detail on this is superb), this is correct essentially for a 'J' but not a Brit Toom, there is a whole panel in the 'J' here that is non existent in the FG.1 So I cut the forward shelf piece down by about 1/3 to what seems the correct height and found a piece out of my spares box that will make a good start for my Accumulator (or whatever it is) box You can just see at the top of this pic that I have removed another control panel that was on the sidewall and blended it in to look like the lining. A couple of wires yet to add. Finally the right side is pretty much as per the kit and resin sets Phew.... Now I just thought I should post my findings as I go so I dont look back and wonder what I did. Cheers Anthony Starfighter, KiwiZac, Landrotten Highlander and 10 others 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenshb Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 If you are using the Aires pit, I'd check the length that it mathches the kit fuselage. In my experience, Aires castings tend to exhibit noticeable shrinkage, and the longer a casting is, the worse it gets. Their F-15 cockpit for example - if the rear cockpit bulkhead is aligned with the panel line on the kit fuselage (where that structure would be), the rear bulkhead for the Bay 5 doesn't line up, but is something like 3 mm too far forward. With the Black Box cockpit being in two parts, you may be able to locate them where they should be... Anthony in NZ and Derek B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek B Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Nice start and analysis Anthony. It may be worth checking with the BPAG guys if there are any NBC AR5 modifications in the cockpits? These are the filters and connections for the personal aircrew AR5 respirators that they would have worn during operation in Nuclear Biological and Chemical (NBC) warfare conditions, so may have aircraft cockpit interface connections, etc (I used to service such equipment on Lightnings, so I expect that phantoms may have had something similar?). Regards Derek Anthony in NZ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony in NZ Posted March 20, 2022 Author Share Posted March 20, 2022 On 3/19/2022 at 11:42 PM, jenshb said: If you are using the Aires pit, I'd check the length that it mathches the kit fuselage. In my experience, Aires castings tend to exhibit noticeable shrinkage, and the longer a casting is, the worse it gets. Their F-15 cockpit for example - if the rear cockpit bulkhead is aligned with the panel line on the kit fuselage (where that structure would be), the rear bulkhead for the Bay 5 doesn't line up, but is something like 3 mm too far forward. With the Black Box cockpit being in two parts, you may be able to locate them where they should be... great advice thanks! I am using the BB one, I feel it is much nicer/accurate in many respects..at east to convert to a FG.1. Keep your input coming, I appreciate it and I will need all the help can get here LOL On 3/20/2022 at 2:35 AM, Derek B said: Nice start and analysis Anthony. It may be worth checking with the BPAG guys if there are any NBC AR5 modifications in the cockpits? These are the filters and connections for the personal aircrew AR5 respirators that they would have worn during operation in Nuclear Biological and Chemical (NBC) warfare conditions, so may have aircraft cockpit interface connections, etc (I used to service such equipment on Lightnings, so I expect that phantoms may have had something similar?). Regards Derek Ok, Roger that. It all sounds like double Dutch to me but I will endeavor to figure it all out and make changes where needed. Thank you sir! Thanks chaps, I am working on the radio scope and controller as it is very different to the 'J' bit more of a challenge I must say, but I will post when I have more to show Cheers Anthony Derek B and Greg W 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcel111 Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 Nose well looks excellent! Anthony in NZ and Derek B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek B Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Anthony in NZ said: Ok, Roger that. It all sounds like double Dutch to me but I will endeavor to figure it all out and make changes where needed. Thank you sir! Cheers Anthony During wartime NBC conditions, the aircrew would use an AR5 respirator, which included an integral oxygen mask, was worn under the helmet as part of his flying clothing (AEA), and was powered by a portable battery powered respirator (the large round hand-held cannister in the images below) to provide ventilation and clean air. The pilot would board the aircraft with this equipment prior to taxi and take off. What I am not certain of, is if the aircraft cockpit was modified to accept the AR5 respirator equipment, which, as can be seen, is not exactly small! Derek Edited March 20, 2022 by Derek B IainM, Anthony in NZ, D.B. Andrus and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek B Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 Just checked this out with an-ex RAF pilot I once worked with on Lightnings and who later went on to fly the Phantom. He has just told me that when he got into the aircraft, the AR5 portable hand-held respirator was disconnected and handed back to the ground crew, as it is too large to stow in the cockpit (the aircrew referred to these portable respirators as the 'whistling handbag'!). So, as you were Anthony - onwards and upwards with your wonderful work! Cheers Derek D.B. Andrus and Anthony in NZ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiZac Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Excellent stuff Ants, I'm excited to see you work your magic! Anthony in NZ and Derek B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easixpedro Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Oh, this is going to be great! Off to a wonderful start in the pit! Always fascinating to the the changes amongst the variants. The O2 panel looks just like the one from the B version... -Peter Derek B and Anthony in NZ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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