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chuck540z3

WWII German or Japanese Aircraft Phobia: Is it just me?

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My own love of aircraft of WWII is purely technical. Yes for me there's a bias, slightly, towards German technology, but it's certainly not ideological. My own mother, for example, from her family's flat in Glasgow, near the Clyde, watched an FW-190 make a bombing run on RN warships. The bomb it "pickled" went down the gangway of an RN cruiser but didn't go off. My grandfather mentioned later that if that bomb did what it was supposed to do, nobody would've survived in her neighborhood. But she described the Bf-110 as the most beautiful  WWII plane she'd ever seen. Probably from other raids or from newsreels.

My own father as a young RAF officer was tasked with recovering downed Luftwaffe aircraft all over southern England during the BoB and he had tremendous respect for the machinery he and his team recovered.

From both sides of my family I was able to appreciate the technical aspects of the enemy. Yes, the politics are important. Got it. But where does one draw the line? I believe it's an individual thing. Personally I won't show the swastika on any of my builds out of respect for the friends I know whose parents, grandparents, or cousins were killed or enslaved by those morons. I've seen their serial numbers tatooed on their arms. But I cannot ignore, as an engineer, what was achieved during that time by any side. It's a difficult tightrope to walk on.

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Being the same age as Chuck, I kind of understand this view point.  But the fanaticism of the Nazis or Japanese ruling classes didn't necessarily reflect the attitudes of the masses, especially in the later stages of WW2 when the reality of what these fanatics were about.  Many German and Japanese did what they could to aid the Allies.  I can also understand those who just want to build models from, say, the US Marines or RAF etc.

 

My father served with the Royal Engineers during WW2, one of those who fought their way across Europe.  Very late in the war, the order went out from Allied Headquarters that any SS soldiers captured were to be summarily executed.  One day, Dad cornered one in a barn and made him surrender.  Turned out he was a terrified 16 year old kid.  Dad took the SS armband off him and told him to go home.  I still have that armband.  It doesn't matter what nationalilty you are, as individuals we all share the same concerns and problems of daily life, then and now.  Most soldiers, sailors and aviators were just doing their duty and protecting their homeland later on, same as anyone on the allied side.

 

But from a modelling perspective, you're missing out big time.  There were some wonderful planes built by both the Japanese, and even more so, the Germans.  Many  are really quite colourful too, especially against USAAF olive drab/neutral gray or late war USN overall dark blue.  How about a Dornier DO-335??  Just about no combat history, but a fascinating plane.  Or a ME-163 rocket??  Killed more of it's own people than it did allied flyers.  Then there's the ME-262, which was so advanced it took the Allies almost ten years to match it.  And no model collection is complete without a 109 or 190.

 

Go on....  Try one :lol:.

 

 

Cheers,

Michael

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I guess the only limitation I have is individual pilots. For instance, I built Galland's 109, because I respect him as a soldier, but I would never build Goering's D.VII or Rudel's Stuka because those guys were Nazi pieces of feces. I try to do learn what I can about the pilot, and make the call based on that.

 

I get where you are coming from, Chuck, so you do it however you like and more power to you.

 

Tim

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Posted (edited)

I have no bias towards a nation in my model building. I'll build what takes my fancy at that particular moment. It's an inanimate collection of plastic pieces after all, it has no ideology and neither do I. I would though, understand someone question my willingness to add Nazi or Japanese markings to a kit. The only time I thought 'now thats just wrong' when seeing a built model was when someone had done a 109 in Heydrichs markings. As in the post above regarding Rudel, you read about him and think, wow, he was one tough S.O.B then you learn you was an unrepentant Nazi to his last day and you think again, wow, no thanks, If I do a Stuka it won't be in his markings. There is also the factor that decent kits of Allied subjects are outweighed by German and Japanese kits. I mean, you could also go down the Rabbit Hole of putting the Soviet Star on a kit, yes they were on our side but the Stalin Regime was pretty damned monstrous in itself. But then we teeter on the edge of politics and whatnot so lets not.

Edited by ade rowlands

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I was born just after WW2 ended but I have no problems whatsoever building Luftwaffe aircraft, in fact my favourite plane of all time is the Bf110. I find the history, the development and the camouflage/markings of the German aircraft fascinating, and I have never, ever thought of the Luftwaffe personnel as “bad guys”. Some allegedly machine-gunned pilots descending on  parachutes but I doubt that was confined solely to the Germans.

I have never though built an aircraft in USAAF markings. 

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2 hours ago, BiggTim said:

I guess the only limitation I have is individual pilots. For instance, I built Galland's 109, because I respect him as a soldier, but I would never build Goering's D.VII or Rudel's Stuka because those guys were Nazi pieces of feces. I try to do learn what I can about the pilot, and make the call based on that.

 

I get where you are coming from, Chuck, so you do it however you like and more power to you.

 

Tim

Would you build, say, a Spitfire or Hurricane in the markings of Douglas Bader then?

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1 hour ago, mozart said:

Some allegedly machine-gunned pilots descending on  parachutes but I doubt that was confined solely to the Germans.

It certainly wasn't. There are recorded cases of pilots shooting at men in parachutes from all sides of the conflict.

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Just build models for the "hobby", do it for the technical challenges, do it to apply your skill sets and and expand them, do it for fun. Don't think of the "politics". There is no war without suffering. 
Radu 

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Posted (edited)

I build a wide variety of subjects and have no issues building German WWI or WWII aircraft.  As others have said, I leave the ideology out of it and build for pleasure and the technical challenge.  For example I like the technical aspect of airbrushing Luftwaffe mottling well; which many of you know takes a fair amount of practice to get right.  I also thing many of the German WWI and WWII paint/camo schemes are very fetching.  As for Japanese aircraft, I enjoy the heavy weathering you can do on them; which applies to land based Corsairs as well.  I completely understand if someone does not feel comfortable building aircraft or vehicles of the two nations above and don't think it is abnormal in any way.  I would never comment negatively or otherwise about the lack of builds of those two nations in someone's collection as it is not "my lane" to determine what they should build or not.   In the same spirit I don't expect folks to marginalize me due to some of the models I build; or worse try to use some sort of social pressure to control what I build - that is wrong.  In the end I think most of us pursue our hobby because we are craftsmen, with a strong historical streak, and enjoy turning a collection of parts into a nice historically accurate representation of the real thing.

 

Just my .02 cents,

Ernest         

Edited by Greif8

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Posted (edited)

Doesn’t bother me at all. The past is past. Couldn’t imagine the hobby without them. Some very cool schemes and designs. Visit Japan or Germany today, very advanced, peaceful democracies.
 

Swastikas I’ve re-thought after meeting a neo nazi memorabilia collector. I found this disturbing and completely understand people’s real life aversion.


The thing is to learn from history .  Plastic aircraft kits never harmed no one (that I know of!)


 

Edited by Pup7309

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If you feel that way it's allright as long as you don't critizise others for doing it (not seeing that at all !!)

 

I don't have a problem with it - very much agree with Troy, Luftwaffe is VERY interesting camoflage wise - although i sick of seeing a huge overweight of German WWII on the tank and figure scene... I do both, but try to find other things... but mostly from a boredom perspective

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Posted (edited)

being from the "other" side i have reflected on this theme a lot (also from a scientiffical standpiont as a phd). i started with Nazi subjects because of the colourful guises of the planes in my youth, not coming from a household anywhere near that idiology. my father as a non jew was professor at the Hadassah in Jerusalem and never stopped to apologize for what hapened.

 

i always think of my grandfather: he fought every single day of the war, starting as a paratrooper, later on the eastern front and in the end with the Flak, being wounded four times. he didnt want to go to war, but what was the alternative?

that being said i rarely build Nazi or WW II subjects anymore for that very reason.

 

on the other hand, why then build US vietnam subjects? its debatable who won an who was the badguy....

Edited by blackbetty

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History is written by the victor. Going down the road of ideologies can be a slippery slope. Each to their preference, but short of "my model, my choice", most arguements can be shown as fallacious pretty quickly.

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59 minutes ago, Thomas Lund said:

If you feel that way it's all right, as long as you don't criticize others for doing it (not seeing that at all !!)

 

Totally agree 100%.  I have no issues with others building these aircraft for all the reasons given above, but for some reason I can't see myself ever doing it, unless I was building a diorama with a Spitfire shooting down a FW190 or similar.  Hey, maybe I just found my axis outlet!  Targets! :P

 

Cheers,

Chuck

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