Alain Gadbois Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 44 minutes ago, RLWP said: Having played around with the part, and finding some drawings, the Eduard part seems to have a representation of the armoured plate moulded on. Richard Armoured plate? It is just a hinged panel that gives access to the rear fuselage ( I think there's normally luggage space and starter crank stowage). It is usually represented as a raised panel in kits. Alain RLWP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted June 5, 2020 Author Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Alain Gadbois said: Armoured plate? It is just a hinged panel that gives access to the rear fuselage ( I think there's normally luggage space and starter crank stowage). It is usually represented as a raised panel in kits. Alain We seem to have somehow got at crossed-purposes Alain. I know there is a hatch, I also know it is used to maintain the Rb 21/18 camera on an E-5, the radio on other variants. This is a similar maintenance job on a Bf 109G with the Rb 50/30 film magazine being handled: Robert Peczkowski has an image of Hauptmann Baron Von Werra (and lion cub) in the cockpit of a Bf 109E-4 in his book Messerschmitt Bf 109 E (page119)*. That shows a slightly different panel with a large label (?). He also has an isometric drawing 'from a Russian Technical Manual' on page 117 which shows a simpler panel. Both are different to what is moulded on the Eduard kit which is much shorter, narrow and has a raised panel edge Has anyone got a clear picture of this panel so I can make one? I'd like to pin down the handle, catch and that 'label' Richard *MORE: I misread the label in the picture, it says without armour plate Edited June 5, 2020 by RLWP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted June 5, 2020 Author Share Posted June 5, 2020 Found it: https://albumwar2.com/lt-franz-von-werra-and-simba-the-lion-cub-in-the-cockpit-messerschmitt-bf-109e-fighter/ This seems to show a plate fitted on top of the access door, I think - and I'm not sure. The isometric drawing shows the hatch finishing around where the horizontal glazing bar is, that plate is shorter The lion cub is Simba: Richard MikeC and Alain Gadbois 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMaben Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Early on that was the first aid compartment and that square object was a holder for the instructions for the first aid supplies. For example I think there was an instruction for the use of a morphine injector. Eventually they moved the first aid to the fuselage as is indicated by the red cross on the side panel. Apparently the instructions stayed in the cockpit as is seen in the picture you referenced. Some had no instructions. Some had 2. If they were using that compartment for camera access, I doubt there was anything there since it was a rare and unique application. hth TAG, Alain Gadbois, dodgem37 and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted June 5, 2020 Author Share Posted June 5, 2020 Thank you Mike. If you compare your last two images, the colour one shows what I expected, a sort-of flush access door with a hinge at the bottom. It doesn't go quite as high up the fuselage as I expected from the Russian drawing The final image seems to show either a thicker panel, or a separate piece. But I'm not sure Anyway, I'll use what is shown on Red 2 for my model - that's what I needed to know. Oh, and I'm putting in a hatch. Maybe there was one, maybe not. But if it is missing I'd have to model what was inside the fuselage and that's a whole new can of worms! Richard MikeMaben and Alain Gadbois 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Gadbois Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Hi Richard! Mike has given you great photos that show the hatch well. I agree the photo of Red 2 is the best to use for your model. You can clearly make out the thin raised panel outline. Note the top of it is approximately at the same level as the hand hold, and a bit lower than the horizontal bracing of the rear canopy section. Alain MikeMaben and RLWP 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 This is the Eduard part: I have been attaching various bits of styrene to represent 'things' in the cockpit: Including buttons and triggers (?) on the column: There are cryptic comments in the instructions about not being able to fit the cowl with the engine in place. It is also true if you want the guns and cowl: Eduard provide short gun barrels (part F29) to get around this, only I want to do something slightly different The engine cowl on the 109 often has a gap along the back edge, as seen on this 109G: https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/messerschmitt-bf-109g-10-in-detail/ And in pictures taken on top you can vaguely make out parts of the gun assembly through that gap. So I'm planning to roughly paint that area and create that gap. Otherwise, I'm closing this one up - no engine. Otherwise I'll never get it finished Richard BradG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greif8 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 The Dragon kit also has to be modified if you are not going to display the engine with the cowling(s) off. Unlike Eduard though, Dragon does not provide alternate parts if you want to display the upper cowling in place so I bit of surgery and scratchbuilding is required. Ernest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMaben Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Your last pic is of a G-10 , Somewhere in the F series there was a rubber seal in that gap. Es never had that seal so there shouldn't be any gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted June 7, 2020 Author Share Posted June 7, 2020 3 hours ago, MikeMaben said: Your last pic is of a G-10 , Somewhere in the F series there was a rubber seal in that gap. Es never had that seal so there shouldn't be any gap. Yet I have pictures in books of preserved Es that show that gap very clearly. I'll have another trawl through Google Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted June 7, 2020 Author Share Posted June 7, 2020 https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/view/1658758 Richard BradG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Gadbois Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 You can't really compare the E and the G, especially the one you have pictured here, as it is missing the rubber seal that Mike mentioned. However, you are correct! There is a gap visible on the top part of the cowl. The fit seems tighter on the sides, however. Alain RLWP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted June 7, 2020 Author Share Posted June 7, 2020 Does anyone know how long an Eduard weekend is? Richard thierry laurent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted June 7, 2020 Author Share Posted June 7, 2020 A bit of a setback. My tin of Humbrol 31 seems to be painting a light brown rather that RLM02. I've ordered a new tin I'm a bit stuck now waiting for that Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Gadbois Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 55 minutes ago, RLWP said: Does anyone know how long an Eduard weekend is? Richard I think that length varies exponentially according to your age: As a kid, it is a couple hours, as an adult, It can last a decade. Alain MikeMaben, Rick Griewski, Gazzas and 2 others 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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