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Jennings Heilig

Cool Cold War photo (and we need an LSP of this!)

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2 hours ago, Jack said:

Wasn't that the type that shot down the Korean airliner over kamchatka years ago?

 

Yes, but it wasn't over Kamchatka.  KAL 007 overflew the Kamchatka Peninsula and continued out over the Sea of Okhotsk for a couple of hours, and was shot down southwest of Sakhalin Island.

 

I was involved in giving classified briefings DoJ lawyers who were at the time involved in the litigation against the US government arising from the KAL 007 shootdown.  We re-created the entire thing minute by minute according to the stuff we'd intercepted.  I can tell you for 100% absolutely certain, the Soviets thought that airplane was an RC-135S Cobra Ball right up to the moment that Gennady Ossipov laid eyes on it just before he shot it down.  But as he's said numerous times since then, he knew it was an airliner, but he didn't care.  His orders were to shoot it down.  But everybody else in the Soviet chain of command, from the radar op on Kamchatka right up to PVO headquarters, and probably beyond, were 100% convinced it was an RC-135.  

 

The Ball had been off the coast of Kamchatka for several hours earlier that day, flying in and out of their radar coverage waiting for an ICBM launch that never ended up happening.  They assigned the same raid number to it every time it popped back up, and after the Ball had departed the area (and was in fact, on the ground at Eielson AFB in Fairbanks, a five hour flight away), the PVO radar operator on Kamchatka assigned the KAL flight the same raid number as he'd used for the Ball earlier.  He went on the "assumption" (and we know what assuming does...) that if there was a high altitude jet anywhere near that area, it *had* to be the Ball.  Everybody bought right into that, despite the fact that in the (then) 22 years that Cobra Ball variants had been operating out of Shemya doing ops off the coast of Kamchatka, not ever even once had one of them come any closer than 12 nm to the Soviet coast, much less overflown the Soviet landmass.  


A classic tragedy of errors and human fallibility.  

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15 hours ago, Jennings Heilig said:

 

Actually very common on a lot of Soviet types.  They're applied parallel to the ground when the airplane is sitting on its landing gear.

 

Also note something else very common - there is no white in the star.  Just red, with natural metal showing through between the star and the red outline.

still the angle seems to be very steep, the Su 15 sits very level

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sukhoi_Su-15TM.png

Edited by blackbetty

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11 hours ago, Jennings Heilig said:

.  


A classic tragedy of errors and human fallibility.  


Right up to the point it became cold blooded murder.  As noted, at the very end, just prior to firing, the pilot identified it as a civilian aircraft, and shot it down anyway because he “didn’t care”.  Then it’s no longer a mistake, honest or otherwise.

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Thanks for posting a spectacular pic of my favourite jet — yes, I'd love to see it in 1/32 IM styrene

 

Shame the Americans didn't file their flightplans with the PVO (as if), that Ossipov had to be about 500' lower and some distance behind the quarry to get a look-up missile lock, and that the CIA funded Sigint gear in some Asian airliners. Shame for the poor souls shot down that is.

So many little pinkies near the nuclear trigger. It's a miracle we never roasted each other to a crisp during the Cold War.

 

Tony

 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Jennings Heilig said:

 

It ain't over yet...

 

ain't it true............................................

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