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Lukgraph DH 89 Rapide


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8 hours ago, Jennings Heilig said:

 

G-AHKV most definitely did have the AA chrome badge on either side of the nose, in the forward end of the black flash.

 

Damn - now I'll have to check those AA and RAC vans!

 

Richard

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I got all the magazines today. By the way, SAM also released a dedicated issue in 2001.

 

The best reference for military versions I found is the Aeroplane issue of April 2004.

 

It gives good pictures and details of the ones used during the Spanish war as well as three interior pictures of the British Dominie Mk1! Alas, they are quite small and do not bring the full reply regarding the layout.

At least it is clear the written description I read is not correct. Based on what I assessed, it looks there were various configurations.

Here's what you can see on the most useful one: at least four standard seats for the students. The instructor had possibly a seat (foldable) on the starboard side close to the cockpit entry but it is not visible (the guy is standing). Behind that you had a table with either radio or navigation systems and a standard seat. There was at least yet another standard seat on the starboard side (further back) but no other table was visible. On the port side, there were radio/navigation systems behind the front bulkhead with one standard seat. There was possibly a second one at the same level than the one of the guy seated at the table (but it is not visible because of the guy seated in the thrid seat) and then a third standard one a little bit ahead of the last visible on the starboard side. I do not think there were other seats in the rear based on the location of the windows but I may be wrong. Alas we have no picture taken from the front of the cabin.

Another picture shows the starboard table without any system but right behind a standard seat and the last one shows a similar table at the same location but without any seat back visible ahead. So that one either had no front starboard seat, either, again, a foldable one. The picture posted by Max shows again another internal layout with radio systems partly in the cockpit entry.

 

Conclusion: it looks there was NO standard configuration for Dominie Mk.Is!

 

 

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I have to correct my prior statement. There were possibly two additional seats in the rear (based on pictures of Dominies Mk.Is in flight ).

 

This means the statement mentioning five students seats is fully possible with possibly one additional standard seat for the instructor at the front of the port side of the cabin (right behind the radio rack). However, there was more than probably a single table if additional systems were used.

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It’s a knotty old problem that I’ve been trying to untangle unsuccessfully for a while Thierry! It's largely a matter of trying to glean snippets here and there from personal accounts (can memories be trusted?) and the few photographs available.  

I reckon these two pictures were taken on the same training sortie:

 

5NOrk0.jpg


EiGCAm.jpg

 

and identifying the two major items:

 

LLaQOD.jpg

 

The usual T1154 and R1155 arrangement in a Lancaster:

91dm8E.jpg

 

In the picture below I think that's the open side door to the left, so four seats in front of it, another two behind?  That's enough room for five trainees plus the instructor.  Given that they could all receive signals but only one at a time transmit (the desk in front of the T1154 with the morse key on it) I can imagine exercises with signals coming from the base at Yatesbury which they all "translated" from their seats but one by one they moved to the front to transmit back.

 

oBFcmy.png

 

But like Thierry said, I can't square this memory with these pictures:

 

B4wSxo.png

 

I can't envisage space in a Dominie for all those Rx/Tx sets.

 

Example of other wartime memories, I knew Louis Butler and would trust his pithy comment:

 

The Dominie carried a pilot, a Corporal Instructor and five or seven trainees. Frank Swan recalls, “Looking back makes me think of how those cabins smelt of sick, primarily because it was mostly the cadets’ first flight in a shabby old aircraft which already smelt”. L Butler, writing in “RAF Yatesbury – the History” reminisces about the biscuit tin which was kept on board. “It was odds-on that least one of the seven trainees would be sick. When queuing up to take your turn to fly, you would almost inevitably see one trainee coming off the plane holding the biscuit tin. He would have been the one who had been sick and it would cost half-a-crown to pay the ground crew to clean it out”.

 

The trainees would carry out exercises during the flight. But these flights were sometimes almost as terrifying as anything that they eventually encountered on operations. The pilots were usually those who had complete a tour of ops or were waiting to be posted to an operational squadron and were not too happy flying a Dominie. Members tell of hair-raising rides flying in between canyons of clouds, mock dogfights with other Dominies and Proctors, flying alongside a flight of B17 bombers, flying under the Clifton suspension bridge, dodging balloon cables over London for ‘fun’ and chasing sheep on the downs.

Edited by mozart
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57 minutes ago, Zac_Zolar said:

A real quickie, those who are UK based how long did it take to receive your kit from when you received  the shipping notification? I know 'thing' are a bit up in the air at the moment but a guide time frame will be a help.

 

Zac.

Look back to p13 Zac and you’ll see my answer to the same question. ;)

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I’ve just spent an interesting couple of hours listening to personal accounts from people who trained as w/ops at Yatesbury (No. 2 Wireless and Radio School) in Dominies. Accounts varied in some respects but it’s largely due to when they trained and the radio equipment they used. The earlier gear, up to the end of 1943ish, was the 1082 and 1083 receiver transmitters. They were big, bulky, and quite difficult to use in some respects such as tuning. They needed coils changed if the frequency was altered and the students had to carry a large bag with them containing an array of coils.  Conditions in the planes were described as cramped (they were also of course in flying gear with parachutes) and numbers of pupils (when mentioned) was 3 or 4.

Then the Marconi T1154/R1155 sets were introduced, frequencies were changed by simply turning colour-coded dials, so easier to use, no need for bags of coils etc. There were 5 seats but 6 pupils were often carried, somebody sitting uncomfortably on a “shelf” at the back of the aircraft. There was only one transmit (morse) key available which was on the desk in front of the transmitter, so they took it in turns to operate it over the length of the flight. The instructor (sitting alongside) gave each student a station to call up and a message to pass on, or a signal would be sent from a ground station which the pupil had to answer.  One Australian chap said his initial w/op training at home was using WW1 equipment so the Marconi gear was a revelation. 
No real clue about layout apart from the mention of the number of seats, and what can be deduced from that.

Edited by mozart
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