F-4C Phantom question

[Cheetah11]

2 minutes ago, Jennings Heilig said:

 

My mistake.  Sorry.  

 

No problem.

 

Nick

[Finn]

Some more photos of mostly the time period are here:

 

http://www.piccianiaircraftphotos.com/f-4c_phantom_page_one

 

just look at the a/c pics, ignore the watermark copyright notices, note pics #40 and 41 show 63-7710 with it's kill marking, pic #41 shows a repaint of the splinter plate and the kill marking.

There is also a Page 2 of F-4C photos.

 

Jari

[32scalelover]

10 hours ago, Jennings Heilig said:

So this is a subject near and dear to me.  I did the artwork for the 1997 IPMS decal based on assistance from some folks who claimed more knowledge than it turned out they actually had.  That was a hundred years ago.

 

A couple of years later, Fox One did a sheet of Bolo birds based on research by Jack Morris (who also did the decal art).  Jack is very fastidious, but even his decal artwork doesn't match the photos of the aircraft.

 

I've wanted to do all of the Bolo aircraft *right* for ages!  For example, I believe (based on photographic evidence) that they applied the tail codes and the last three of the serial in FS36622, not white as has been universally shown.  Many photos clearly show them darker than pure white.  There may be other explanations for it, but the upshot is, they shouldn't be stark white.  

Also, the devil badge on '829 has never been done correctly to my knowledge.  The colors are usually reversed, and the real thing was in a blue-green color, not some sort of tan or brown as usually shown.  

If anyone has any really good information they'd like to share, especially as regards the camouflage scheme patterns and markings, I'd be happy to credit you and give you decals when we do them.  Also the information in this thread on the physical configurations of the aircraft is something that hasn't been brought out widely either.

 

 

 Will you be doing 680 in 1/32?  What is the timeline for these?  I only have 829 which doesn't seem correct for Bolo.

 

Greg

[32scalelover]

Did anyone ever do just a decal sheet of the white tail numbers so you could make any number you want?

 

Greg

[Darren Howie]

On 11/12/2019 at 11:37 AM, Barry said:

 

Hi Darren,

 

There has been untold amount of debate over this. Do you have a photo of this? I agree that Mr Ferris's story (I have the print) of the General's memory of configuration and there were many F-4C's fitted with the early D model chinless radome but I not seen a picture of 680 with the chinless radome.

 

Barry

8th TFW, Ubon Thailand

 

Hi Barry

PM me your email and ill forward you the image with info.

cheers

Darren

 

PS just notced somene posted them.

They where sent to me via Gen Olds daughter and an artist andcwhere taken by his crew chief with his ever present camera you see in many videos.

The images where of the Bolo pre flight around his aircraft.

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Darren Howie

[Tony T]

20 hours ago, Cheetah11 said:

 

Tony the Navy had the same problem with clearances. They overcame this by loading one Aim-9 and only two bombs on the TER (on the opposite side.) Only after around 1970 did the Navy get extensions allowing two missiles and a fully loaded TER to be carried per pylon. These extensions are in the F-4J from Tamiya.

 

BTW I have not seen one period photo of USAF Phantoms in Vietnam with both missiles and air-to-ground ordnance fitted together on the inside pylon.  I also cannot recall any model with the correct pylon/launcher combination for typical USAAF Vietnam Phantoms.

 

Nick

 

 

Yes, thanks Nick. I was thinking of the later configuration. 

 

I've seen some pretty bizarre combinations of Falcon missiles and bombs on F-4D inner wing pylons, and of course Sidewinders and ECM pods on F-4D/Es. There was a specific Technical Order which added ECM wiring for the inside pylons. 

 

The tailcodes and three numbers story is equally difficult to accurately snap-shoot in time. Peter Davies' Osprey MiG killer books might have some answers. I know he talked to many of the F-4 crews including Olds. 

 

Tony 

[jenshb]

On 11/13/2019 at 5:11 PM, Jennings Heilig said:

So this is a subject near and dear to me.  I did the artwork for the 1997 IPMS decal based on assistance from some folks who claimed more knowledge than it turned out they actually had.  That was a hundred years ago.

 

 

 

Still got that decal...:)  An updated sheet with more correct markings would be nice.  As would a 1:32 figure of Robin Olds himself.  Or even a 120 mm figure.

[Cheetah11]

Hi Greg

 

I see no one has responded with some of the details for your proposed build. The seats you need for a 1967 F-4C are the MB H-5 and the launchers on the Navy pylon are the LAU-7 or AERO-3. More info on the Phantom Phacts blogspot. 
 

I hope we see a WIP soon.

 

Nick

[Tony T]

And remove the doubler plates from the all-moving drooped stabilator. 

OOB Sparrows are fine but you'll need the old uncooled lead sulphide AIM-9Bs...

 

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/ED632083

 

This will be edited to activate the link, which never seems to work without a rocket-up-its-rear edit

 

Tony 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Tony T
already specified

[32scalelover]

Thanks Cheetah 11 and Tony T.  The kit is 75% complete at this point. I just cut off the IR sensor off the nose to make it a smooth nose C.  I am going with that posted photo right or wrong.  Working on how to get the proper tail number 680.  I will probably use the tamiya sparrows, and I need to see what the visual differences are between the Aim-9E and Aim-9B.  See if I can modify the ones I have or need AM ones. 

 

Greg

[32scalelover]

I will look into the visible differences of the ejection seats. 

 

Greg

Edited November 16, 2019 by 32scalelover

[Finn]

The AF used AERO-3B launchers on their F-4's:

 

 

The Navy did have the AERO-3B as well early on but then switched to the LAU-7.

 

Jari

[Finn]

Here is a F-8 with a AERO-3B on the top and a LAU-7 on the bottom, both with Zuni launchers:

 

 

Jari

[thierry laurent]

Changing the Tamiya AIM-9 into a B type  one is a very difficult work. Actually the Tamiya ones are a mix of various Sidewinder types features and do not look like any existing mark. The easiest thing to do with them is AIM-9D if you move forward the winglets. Alas, this mark was only used by Navy and Marines Phantoms. Get resin ones or possibly retrieve some good ones from another kit. This is the most reasonable thing to do if you want B types. 

[Cheetah11]

1 hour ago, Finn said:

The AF used AERO-3B launchers on their F-4's:

 

 

The Navy did have the AERO-3B as well early on but then switched to the LAU-7.

 

Jari

 

Jari you are correct on the AERO-3B but the time period is around 1970 with AIM-9E missiles.

 

In 1967 most likely LAU-7 with the AIM-9B. I hope Mr Lou Drendel does not mind this photo from "And Kill Migs".

This kill was in May 1967.  With so many missile/launcher and extension combinations on the F-4 I try to at least get a period photo to get the config of a model correct.

 

 

Cheers

 

Nick