Radub Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 As I said repeatedly, there is no point in going over the whole "slats are gravity+aerodynamics" controlled stuff. I said that from the very beginning that the operation principles were clear and beyond any discussion. Yes, the slats should move freely. However! As I said, when pushed back, when there is no other push, shake, vibration, while on the ground, the slats stay up. It makes sense to keep the slats up when the aicraft is parked on the airfield in order to preven them from slaping in and out in the wind and weather. When the plane is under power or in the air, the situation is different. I looked back over the photos I took when researching this model and I found why that is: at the trainiling edge of the slat there is a small "lip". That causes enough friction to hold the slat up (until disturbed). It is not a very strong "grip" and I imagine that when the plane is under power the vibrations will be enough to loosen the slats. I have photos showing this "lip" on the aicraft that was in Munich at that time (now it is in Oberschleissheim). The aircraft in Prague have the slats closed, so I do not have photographs of the inside of the slats. The aircraft in Cosford also had the slats closed, so I do not have photographs of the inside of the slats there either. To be perfectly honest, the only reasaion why these "lips" are visible on the aicraft in Munich is because the aircraft was partially stripped and has no engine cowlings. I am not sure if that "lip" would be immediately visible on an aircraft with the ful engine cowling in place. Here are some photos I took in Munich. I hope this helps. Radu D Bellis and D.B. Andrus 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark P Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Holly thread drift....we have gone from kits in stock at Sprue Brothers to how the slats on the 262 operate... Now, having said this there is plenty of great information here, including photos, which may warrant capture in a more appropriately titled thread. Mark Proulx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alaninaustria Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Me-262: The step at the rear of the leading edge slat seat is negligible in terms of aerodynamics - the speed regime where the slats are deployed due to gravity up to the point where aerodynamic forces cause the leading edge slats to retract is not negatively affected. It actually aides in re-energizing the boundary layer air flow in the low speed regime up to the point where the slats are fully retracted - at that point all parasitic drag such as landing gear, flaps and full scale control surface deflections (elevator etc). are no longer part of the aerodynamic equation as the aircraft is accelerating into the high speed regime. During deceleration for approach and landing, parasitic drag is introduced again into the equation when the landing gear and flaps etc. are selected down... and at a precalculated airspeed the aerodynamic forces allow the springs to deploy the slats. The major problem experienced during approach was when a slat failed to deploy due to a mechanical issue with the roller bearings. The pilot normally had to react quickly due to the imbalance of lift being generated by using aileron. The so called “step” in the seat of the slat on a 1/32 scale model is almost not noticeable - however due to the limitations of IM - it is slightly over exaggerated. Doesn’t bother me one bit... Happy modeling, Cheers Alan D Bellis, Jan_G and D.B. Andrus 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikester Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 FWIW, had an extensive discussion on 109 slats on another forum many years ago. It was noted that when Gunther Rall was still alive and asked by someone whether the slats were normally open or closed on the ground he stated that the ground crew usually pushed them shut to prevent any build up of debris. I've modeled mine both ways. Kagemusha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Ray Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 That lip Radu observed at the back of the slats is probably a structural feature. If they just ran the upper sheet metal to the back of the slat, the sheet metal would probably vibrate something fierce. A downturn of the sheet metal, or folding it under, greatly strengthens the back edge of the slat between supports. This would mean the slat well would probably be at least double or triple the thickness of the sheet metal, at least, depending on how thick the supports are at the back end. I doubt they end at a knife edge. At any rate, I plan on showing a slight step at the back of the well in 1/32nd scale, as Jennings plans on doing. And its nice seeing the new Revell Germany stuff starting to show up in the states, in an attempt to bring things back on topic. Rick Griewski and LSP_K2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radub Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Here is a little video I took today in Cosford. Me 262 slats Radu Tony T and RBrown 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bellis Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 37 minutes ago, Radub said: Here is a little video I took today in Cosford. Me 262 slats Radu We'll need to log into your account to view it. D LSP_K2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Griewski Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 After all this back and forth I am going to glue the suckers closed... And include a tiny do not touch flag hanging from the leading edge. LOL Rick Gazzas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radub Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, D Bellis said: We'll need to log into your account to view it. D Yeah, I feared that... Anyone know how to upload a video here? LATER EDIT: link should work now. 9 hours ago, Rick Griewski said: After all this back and forth I am going to glue the suckers closed... And include a tiny do not touch flag hanging from the leading edge. LOL Rick The video shows how easily the slats slide in and out and can stay whichever way you leave them, either open or closed. And that has been my point all along: when the aircraft is "at rest", the slats could stay either way, not just the "one way", whichever that "one way" someone may believe it is. I have similar video, which I also took today, of the Bf 109 slats, doing precisely the same. You want to leave them open? Fine! You want to leave them closed? Fine! Radu Edited November 8, 2019 by Radub Rick Griewski and nmayhew 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark P Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 Probably the same for the 110? Mark Proulx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radub Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Mark P said: Probably the same for the 110? Mark Proulx Yes. Also the 410. I had access to the 410 in Cosford, which is in the restoration hall (in pieces) but the slats were bound with straps. Radu Lothar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Mike Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 So, thinning the edges for a more scale look on a 110, slats out is fine. Or a 109 for that matter.I suppose PE slats would be the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbird Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 10 hours ago, Radub said: Yeah, I feared that... Anyone know how to upload a video here? LATER EDIT: link should work now. The video shows how easily the slats slide in and out and can stay whichever way you leave them, either open or closed. And that has been my point all along: when the aircraft is "at rest", the slats could stay either way, not just the "one way", whichever that "one way" someone may believe it is. I have similar video, which I also took today, of the Bf 109 slats, doing precisely the same. You want to leave them open? Fine! You want to leave them closed? Fine! Radu Hi Radu, The WWII video clearly shows that the slats of a presumably operational 262 don't stay in closed position and that if they do so they need to be adjusted. Your video shows that the slats of a museum plane that has not been in flying condition for decades behave differently. I believe the slats of a restored/new machine in flying condition would be more relevant to attempt any conclusion in the matter. D Bellis and MikeMaben 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radub Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 6 hours ago, Warbird said: Hi Radu, The WWII video clearly shows that the slats of a presumably operational 262 don't stay in closed position and that if they do so they need to be adjusted. Your video shows that the slats of a museum plane that has not been in flying condition for decades behave differently. I believe the slats of a restored/new machine in flying condition would be more relevant to attempt any conclusion in the matter. That is very true and I never challenged that video. In fact, if you look back in this thread, I already mentioned that video before someone else pointed the very same video to me (but in a condescending tone :-) ) as some kind of "proof" that somehow what I already said was.. wrong when I said it... but... right when someone else says it? The point I was making, and I continue to make, is that when "at rest", when the slats are pushed up they stay up. When the engines start, the vibration is enough to deploy them. I came across this kind of "unshakeable dogma" also when trying to explain that Mustang wings still had panel lines, even after they were coated with putty. Sometimes "internet memes" beat reality. Radu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bellis Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Radub said: The point I was making, and I continue to make, is that when "at rest", when the slats are pushed up they stay up. That is the part of your story that is factually incorrect for an operational/flyable Me 262. But, keep spinning your story - eventually it will match with reality. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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