chrish Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 I’m wondering...curious I guess, has anyone tried to cut strips of clear or white decal material from decal sheet and apply the strip over the rivets to kind of hide them/ tone them down? i may try that yet with mine and some Testors clear decal sheet...an experiment if you will....all sciencey here off topic again...sorry D.B. Andrus, MikeMaben and Uncarina 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Mike Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Would be an interesting thread itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMaben Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) On 10/14/2019 at 7:28 AM, Radub said: It also does so on the Bf 109. There are a multitude of photos in print and on the internet that substantiate that, but they are conveniently ignored by those who only seek open slats. What makes you think they are ignoring anything. Maybe they just want their model to represent the vast majority of photos of open slats. When seperate slats are offered in a kit they almost never fit closed anyway. Slat jamb mods are too much trouble for most . If there was a lip at the top of the slat jamb, it would cause a airflow disruption that wouldn't be wanted. Edited October 16, 2019 by MikeMaben D Bellis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radub Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, MikeMaben said: What makes you think they are ignoring anything. Maybe they just want their model to represent the vast majority of photos of open slats. When seperate slats are offered in a kit they almost never fit closed anyway. Slat jamb mods are too much trouble for most . If there was a lip at the top of the slat jamb, it would cause a airflow disruption that wouldn't be wanted. :-) ha ha ha "Vast majority"? Do you mean... that... maybe... there may be a... "minority"? :-) Not "always"? So, considering that even you agree that there may be situations when slats may be closed, what about those people who may wish to build models representing that kind of scenario? As I pointed out above, I understand the principle behind the slats and I am not arguing against it. Please read again what I wrote. Throwing photos and videos at me to "prove" to me what I already stated and agreed with says more about you than me. I explained the reason for the "lip" on the model. Do you want me to explain it again? ;-) Radu Edited October 16, 2019 by Radub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Mike Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 One way would be to mold the wing to spec. and include PE parts for the slats. That might require a molded jig to shape the slats, but would yield a much more scale appearance. D.B. Andrus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Ray Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 I agree with Jennings. There should be a slight step. The slats will have a slight thickness and the wing should be designed to be as flush as possible with them closed, i.e. smoothest surface at high speed. LSP_K2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_K2 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Rather interestingly, the only time that I can recall anything in the way of AM upgrades for slat wells, was the Eduard 1:32 F-100D PE set, which I must say did add a lot to that area. D.B. Andrus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B. Andrus Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Those look really nice, Kevin. LSP_K2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mebo Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) I seem to recall there is PE for the slat wells in the Eduard set for the Trumpeter 262 night fighter. Cheers Edited October 16, 2019 by Mebo Out2gtcha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kagemusha Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 AIMS do a set, also available direct. D.B. Andrus and LSP_K2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_K2 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 21 minutes ago, Kagemusha said: AIMS do a set, also available direct. Nice! I had no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMaben Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 21 hours ago, Radub said: :-) ha ha ha "Vast majority"? Do you mean... that... maybe... there may be a... "minority"? :-) Not "always"? So, considering that even you agree that there may be situations when slats may be closed, what about those people who may wish to build models representing that kind of scenario? As I pointed out above, I understand the principle behind the slats and I am not arguing against it. Please read again what I wrote. Throwing photos and videos at me to "prove" to me what I already stated and agreed with says more about you than me. I explained the reason for the "lip" on the model. Do you want me to explain it again? ;-) Radu Why do I feel like I'm playing 3 dimensional chess ? thierry laurent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMaben Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 17 hours ago, Jennings Heilig said: I would have to disagree there. I’ve had my hands on the NASM aircraft a couple of times, and there is definitely a small lip, hence my question about reducing rather than eliminating it. It is small , as in nearly indistinguishable ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvanroy Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) The step is basically the thickness of the metal skinning. I'm away from my references at the moment, so I can't check, but working from memory, I believe the thickness of the skinning on the Bf 109 is 0.75 mm. Add some tolerance, and you get a step in the order of 1 mm - that would be around 0.03 mm in 1/32. Taking into account covering by primer & paint, it probably should be slightly more on a scale model, but anything over 0.1 mm will look somewhat overscale. I have to admit I'm a bit mystified by the entire discussion over open vs closed slats. The slats were free moving - they did not have any mechanical actuation, they were not spring loaded; they were simply opened or closed automatically by the airflow while in flight. As a consequence, on a parked aircraft, they can be in any position - from fully closed to fully opened, and even balanced somewhere in between. On the ground, it is possible to pull them open or push them closed by hand. On the Bf 109, the slats generally tend to be closed on the ground. However, as said before, it is perfectly possible for them to be open, as documented in many photos. In fact, you can quite easily find images of parked aircraft with one slat open and one slat closed, and of aircraft with one or both slats just slightly displaced, not opened fully. In the case of the Me 262, parked aircraft are much more commonly seen with open slats than in the case of the Bf 109 - but, yet again, this doesn't mean they have to be open. The difference between both types may in part be due to the difference in orientation of the slat rails while on the ground as pointed out in this thread earlier - in the Bf 109, the rails are approximately horizontal, while on a parked Me 262, they are angled downwards. Consequently, while on a parked 109 the slats are neutrally balanced and hence less likely to be displaced, on a Me 262 there is a bigger chance of them sliding open under their own weight. However, there is another thing to consider here. The different ground angles of the Bf 109 and Me 262 also mean that the airflow patterns over the wing are different after the aircraft has touched down and is with its three wheels on the ground. Immediately after touching down, the aircraft still has significant speed, and there is still significant flow over the wing - strong enough to operate the slats. So, I can imagine that the airflow over the wing of a Bf 109 immediately after landing causes the slats to retract, while on a Me 262, due to its different ground angle, it causes them to open. As a result, most Bf 109s have their slats closed when parked, while most Me 262s have them open. Bottom line: slats can be open or closed on the ground, both are possible - there is no 'wrong' position for the slats on a parked Bf 109 or Me 262. Anyway, just my 2 ct... Edited October 17, 2019 by pvanroy Typos CATCplSlade, fab and D.B. Andrus 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnie hopper Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Maybe this image could also help. By my opinion, there's no reason for slats to stay closed while the plane stays calm on the ground. https://imgur.com/Vcgw3X5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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