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B-17 Down


John1
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I guess flying these "ancient" aircraft takes a certain  amount of risk to it, but then again it still is a "way" of experiencing what it would like have been to be flying the aircraft, NOT the way it was in WW2 ofcourse, but just sitting in a ancient aircraft.

That being said i was lucky to fly their P51D in the back seat at the first months of this year, but unfortunately my pilot got killed a few months afterwards flying the N9M.....again a famous aircraft of the time............

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1 hour ago, cbk57 said:

 

A 30 minute ride in a B-17 is only that, you really are not experiencing the aircraft as that would require taking a 8 hour flight at about 30,000.00 feet to really get a sense of what it was like.  

I’d argue that there is nothing out there today that will allow you to get a sense of what “it” was like.    That being said, a few years back, I had the pleasure of standing in relatively close proximity to this B-17 when she started her engines and the sounds (and smells) of those 4 motors starting up was incredibly moving to me.   It sounds strange but standing there, I felt a small but very distinct connection to those 19-year old kids who flew these ships into combat.  

 

 

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I echo the statement that like all airplane accidents we must find out why.  And maybe we can make some improvements.  I am not for eliminating rides on vintage aircraft.  I flew on Aluminum Overcast some years ago, and I would hate to rob others of such an awesome experience.  

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5 hours ago, Jennings Heilig said:

Very sad news.  Condolences to the families of those who lost their lives, and healing energy to those who were injured.  

 

My short ride aboard Nine-O-Nine back in 2001 was a lifetime memory.

I actually had that on my bucket list. Now never to happen. 

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Hey all

Sad news today. The Collings Foundation B-17 has crashed in Connecticut.:(:(:(:omg: this happened October 2, 2019 at approximately 9:00 am.

  There were 7 people killed. There were three crew members on board with I believe 10 paying passengers, plus one person on the ground involved. They had just taken off when they experienced engine problems and turned around to land and check out what was wrong when they crashed into a building on the runway area by the de-icing facility. From the videos it's hard to believe how anyone could have survived. I hope they don't stop these flights because of this, because there is already talk about how safe these old WW2 planes are, sad very sad:(

Ron G 

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  • 2 years later...

Can't find the NTSB report link again, but there were some incorrect connections on the magnetos for two of the engines.  Big insurance cost impact to warbird operators from the 737Max crashes, now one of the best-funded operations out there found to have cut corners on maintenance.

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9 minutes ago, Brianer said:

Can't find the NTSB report link again, but there were some incorrect connections on the magnetos for two of the engines.  Big insurance cost impact to warbird operators from the 737Max crashes, now one of the best-funded operations out there found to have cut corners on maintenance.

Here you go...other links embedded in this NTSB summary article

 

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NTSB Final Report, downloads as a PDF.

 

...and according to the NTSB report, there were no incorrect connections, just the P-lead was loose on one (right mag) of the magneto's of No.4 engine and the ground tab was in contact with the case, effectively neutralizing that magneto.  There is also mention of a single strand of safety wire on the securing nut for said magneto p-lead...not germane to the situation but not aviation standard either.  The other magneto did not produce sufficient spark due to wear of the compensator cam; both combined to cause the flight crew to shut down No. 4 engine.  The magnetos for No. 3 engine functioned perfectly but No. 3 engine suffered from detonation (an uncontrolled burn of the fuel-air mixture in the cylinder - effectively, an explosion within the cylinder).

Edited by Juggernut
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22 minutes ago, Juggernut said:

The magnetos for No. 3 engine functioned perfectly but No. 3 engine suffered from detonation (an uncontrolled burn of the fuel-air mixture in the cylinder - effectively, an explosion within the cylinder).

Interesting way of putting it, given that's exactly what an internal combustion engine is supposed to do....did it just do it when it wasn't supposed to? Like out of timing sequence?

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1 hour ago, BiggTim said:

Interesting way of putting it, given that's exactly what an internal combustion engine is supposed to do....did it just do it when it wasn't supposed to? Like out of timing sequence?

 

Not exactly but poor ignition timing can cause it (there are several others as well).  Detonation is the spontaneous combustion of the fuel/air mixture within the cylinder (an explosion) and isn't necessarily ignited by the spark plug (excessive pressure and high temps are what cause it).  Some refer to it as "pre-ignition" but it's not the same.  With the correct mixture (and all other things being equal), the fuel/air mixture should burn evenly across the cylinder, not explode.  Think of detonation as  a dynamite explosion when the proper ignition should be more of a flash fire.  The effect of detonation on a piston is something like hitting it with a sledge hammer instead of an immediate increase in pressure.  It ends up putting holes in pistons if left unchecked.

 

 

Edited by Juggernut
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