Radar antenna arrangement on He-219

[curiouslysophie]

7 minutes ago, Out2gtcha said:

Its also of note that the He-219 is setting by the Arado Ar-234 which is a BIG aircraft IRL...............and the Owl dwarfs it! 

 

I do have an Arado to build. Maybe I can recreate the NASM display, haha

[John1]

On 9/9/2019 at 2:03 PM, nmayhew said:

Rick Kranias is a member on here and he works at the museum in the US where they have the only He219 still in one piece (they are actually putting it together as we speak), so he may chime in

 

there will be plenty of examples with black undersides btw

 

interestingly, on restoration it was found that the paintwork is *not* a dark mottle of RLM 74 (or RLM75?) over a light base of RLM76, but rather a pattern of light lines / squiggles etc over a dark base - ie a reverse mottle

 

here is the NASM bird where you can see what I mean hopefully

 

 

 

 

So what am I looking at here?  Is the darker colored paint supposed to be original?    For that matter, assuming this is an exact restoration, why would the Germans have gone to the trouble of camouflaging the wing root area which would be completely covered by the wing, once assembled.   Makes no sense.  

[Radub]

43 minutes ago, John1 said:

So what am I looking at here?  Is the darker colored paint supposed to be original?    For that matter, assuming this is an exact restoration, why would the Germans have gone to the trouble of camouflaging the wing root area which would be completely covered by the wing, once assembled.   Makes no sense.  

The aircraft was built in sub-components that were finished first and then assembled together, just like they did with this restoration. By sheer coincidence, there is a separate thread about RAF camouflage showing how a wing was painted while rested vertically.

Radu

Edited September 14, 2019 by Radub

[John1]

5 minutes ago, Radub said:

The aircraft was built in sub-components that were finished first and then assembled together, just like they did with this restoration. By sheer coincidence, there is a separate thread about RAF camouflage showing how a wing was painted while rested vertically.

Radu

So the Germans took the time to fully camouflage a section of the airframe that would never see the light of day once it was assembled?  LOL, how typically German.  No wonder they lost the war.

 

Any idea of that paint on the wing root area is original or simply a darker shade used by the restoration team?

[Dave Williams]

I believe that the dark paint is the original paint and that’s how they knew how to repaint the rest of it.  If the complete fuselage without wings was camouflaged separately, I can certainly believe they wouldn’t bother taking the time to mask off the wing root or making an effort to spray around the root freehand.  Easier to just keep going with the pattern.

[Wurzacher]

40 minutes ago, Dave Williams said:

...If the complete fuselage without wings was camouflaged separately, I can certainly believe they wouldn’t bother taking the time to mask off the wing root or making an effort to spray around the root freehand.  Easier to just keep going with the pattern.

At least that´s the way I would do it! When my ancestors decided not to bother masking such areas, this, IMHO, shows efficiency in wartime. And no, I don´t think we lost the war because such things, hehe... 

Edited September 14, 2019 by Wurzacher

[John1]

1 hour ago, Wurzacher said:

At least that´s the way I would do it! When my ancestors decided not to bother masking such areas, this, IMHO, shows efficiency in wartime. And no, I don´t think we lost the war because such things, hehe... 

I’d argue the opposite.   Just another (albeit very minor) example of Germanic obsession with perfection.   Perfection is always the enemy of production and at the end of the day, quantity will always trump quality.   

Edited September 14, 2019 by John1

[Radub]

3 hours ago, John1 said:

So the Germans took the time to fully camouflage a section of the airframe that would never see the light of day once it was assembled?  LOL, how typically German.  No wonder they lost the war.

 

 

Not only the Germans, but pretty much everyone, American, British, Japanese, did that at the time and most still do it today. By the way here is that thread I was talking about. See how much easier it is to paint a wing when it is separate?

Radu

[Juggernut]

Hell, B-17's were left natural metal in the vast majority of the interior because paint = lost time and added weight.

 

When the decision was made to remove the camouflage from USAAF aircraft, and in at least the case of B-17 production, a lot of painted parts were used on silver airframes; subcontracted things like outer wings and vertical fins were among the more noticeable painted parts used.

[John1]

Radub,

 

I disagree that the US was following the same procedures at that time.   

 

Love the pictures of those exquisitely camouflaged (apparently outside and hidden sections) German aircraft moldering away at wars end.   Compare to the US, who had long before eliminated all camouflage paint, primarily as a means to increase production rates.  Heck, North American ceased painting portions of the Mustang’s wheel well interiors because it slowed down production / added to costs and at the end of the day, it didn’t matter if the aircraft rotted out in a few years because most combat aircraft only lasted a year or so at best.   

 

Over in the Pacific, the Navy eliminated their complex (and arguably very effective) 3-tone scheme for the same reasons.   Nothing was allowed to impact production and costs.   At the same time, the Germans were slavishly (no pun intended) camouflaging interior sections of their aircraft.   Sorry but I find that to be somewhat humorous.     

[Radub]

18 minutes ago, John1 said:

Radub,

 

I disagree that the US was following the same procedures at that time.   

 

Love the pictures of those exquisitely camouflaged (apparently outside and hidden sections) German aircraft moldering away at wars end.   Compare to the US, who had long before eliminated all camouflage paint, primarily as a means to increase production rates.  Heck, North American ceased painting portions of the Mustang’s wheel well interiors because it slowed down production / added to costs and at the end of the day, it didn’t matter if the aircraft rotted out in a few years because most combat aircraft only lasted a year or so at best.   

 

Over in the Pacific, the Navy eliminated their complex (and arguably very effective) 3-tone scheme for the same reasons.   Nothing was allowed to impact production and costs.   At the same time, the Germans were slavishly (no pun intended) camouflaging interior sections of their aircraft.   Sorry but I find that to be somewhat humorous.     

 

You can disagree, but the reality is what it is. :-) 

The Germans also eventually planned to stop painting their aircraft. Many late-war Luftwaffe aircraft were completely or partially unpainted and some paint instructions called for unpainted undersides, for the same reasons. However, the practice of painting aircraft in subsections and assembling them afterwards was widespread and still is. Don't take my word for it, Google it! 

Radu 

[LSP_Ray]

By the time the US stopped painting their aircraft, they outnumbered the German airforce and did not have much in the way of problems with roving German planes attacking their airfields. The Germans didn't have that luxury. They needed the camo.

[John1]

48 minutes ago, LSP_Ray said:

By the time the US stopped painting their aircraft, they outnumbered the German airforce and did not have much in the way of problems with roving German planes attacking their airfields. The Germans didn't have that luxury. They needed the camo.

Yep but a simple coat of green would have sufficed.  Instead, Germans being Germans, they opted for time consuming, multicolor schemes that put additional strain on their failing supply and production capabilities.   Same applies to their armor.   They dutiful applied zimmerrit to all their tanks for a couple of years despite their being no magnetic mine threat.  Why?   Because it was in the specifications!   

 

 

[Dave Williams]

15 minutes ago, John1 said:

Yep but a simple coat of green would have sufficed.  Instead, Germans being Germans, they opted for time consuming, multicolor schemes that put additional strain on their failing supply and production capabilities.   Same applies to their armor.   They dutiful applied zimmerrit to all their tanks for a couple of years despite their being no magnetic mine threat.  Why?   Because it was in the specifications!   

 

 

 

You seem to be continuing to push your view of Germans as perfectionists who slavishly follow regulations and that’s why they lost the war, even though others have pointed out that what they did wasn’t that different than others.  As the son of a mother who was born in Germany during the war, I don’t agree with you and think you should stop before you go too far.

[Gazzas]

38 minutes ago, Dave Williams said:

 

You seem to be continuing to push your view of Germans as perfectionists who slavishly follow regulations and that’s why they lost the war, even though others have pointed out that what they did wasn’t that different than others.  As the son of a mother who was born in Germany during the war, I don’t agree with you and think you should stop before you go too far.

 

59 minutes ago, John1 said:

 Instead, Germans being Germans...

 

 

 

You can stop your ethnic bashing anytime.