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Padubon

Semi-dull, Dull and Flat coats

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What do you use? I can’t ever get a nice flat finish without looking powdery.

I am aware that a combat aircraft paint coat gets weathered differently, depending on the conditions of the combat zone.

All I want to know is how to get a nice flat, semi and dull.

 

Edited by Padubon

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I use three different manufacturers.

 

Matt & Satin - Hannants own

Gloss - Klear

NMF gloss - Vallejo

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It's a common error with a lot of people spraying that they use the incorrect air/paint ratio and avoid spraying a 'wet' coat to avoid runs but at the same time the paint dries too readily due to the excess amount of air, hence the 'dusty' look.

That's why if you've ever seen a professional car sprayer literally loading huge amounts of gloss paint onto a car to get that 'gun finish' high gloss, it's the same reason, the paint needs to flow on the surface evenly to get the lustre and stay wet but without runs or sags, it's extremely skilled.

Also you need to be able to move to other areas while the paint is still wet, so I doubt it's your paint, it could be one or all of these reasons, :-

 

1. Paint not thinned enough [ this will force you to use more air to spray ]

2. Not enough paint [ will dry too readily ]

3. Too high a pressure 

 

Graham

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3 hours ago, GrahamF said:

It's a common error with a lot of people spraying that they use the incorrect air/paint ratio and avoid spraying a 'wet' coat to avoid runs but at the same time the paint dries too readily due to the excess amount of air, hence the 'dusty' look.

That's why if you've ever seen a professional car sprayer literally loading huge amounts of gloss paint onto a car to get that 'gun finish' high gloss, it's the same reason, the paint needs to flow on the surface evenly to get the lustre and stay wet but without runs or sags, it's extremely skilled.

Also you need to be able to move to other areas while the paint is still wet, so I doubt it's your paint, it could be one or all of these reasons, :-

 

1. Paint not thinned enough [ this will force you to use more air to spray ]

2. Not enough paint [ will dry too readily ]

3. Too high a pressure 

 

Graham

 

My color and gloss applications are fine. My problem is that I cannot obtain a smooth flat coat.

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I've had problems like this during the hot weather we've been having in the UK. I resorted to using Vallejo matt, applied with a brush. I'd previously tried spraying various makes (including Tamiya matt) with flow improver added. It then took a week to dry and the finish wasn't much better either. I'm think of going back to Humbrol enamel for the satin, as I don't remember ever having problems with that! 

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Moistrue in the air or a too cold airconditioned enviorment will lead to blushed flat clears.

 

Some times you can shoot a gloss to correct, and then flat again. It's also good practice to have a test piece that is sprayed first to see reactions before commmiting to the model.

 

I have had luck also spot drybrushiing color over the hazy surface to save it.

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7 hours ago, Ryan said:

Moistrue in the air or a too cold airconditioned enviorment will lead to blushed flat clears.

 

Some times you can shoot a gloss to correct, and then flat again. It's also good practice to have a test piece that is sprayed first to see reactions before commmiting to the model.

 

I have had luck also spot drybrushiing color over the hazy surface to save it.

 

What pressure do you use for spraying?

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Im at about 20 pounds +/-.

 

The blushing is frustrating, its happend to me plenty of times, right now I'm using Vajello Satin and is working very well.

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I too spray (MRP) at about 18 - 20 PSI. Ive had so far, excellent luck with MRPs matt clear. As long as noted above, you aren't shooting in a room that is too cold or humid. 

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Or shoot outside then bring the kit inside quickly....been there done that!

 

It looked like a frosted cake!

Edited by Ryan

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For gloss im using mostly Mr.Color GX100 Super clear iii

but for final finish only MRP semi matt ( most common for me), matt and semi gloss

 

never had any issue with the final appearance

jan

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I like to make my own formulas for matt or flat clear coats by combining flat with gloss or semi-gloss. 

 

Pure "flat" straight up out of the bottle is too flat IMO.  You can also go over the line very quickly where you feel you have put too much on.

 

 

 

 

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Quote

I can’t ever get a nice flat finish without looking powdery.

 

FWIW, I'll be just guessing about how to best solve your issue but I need to ask a couple of questions....

What do you mean by "powdery"?  Do you mean the flat coat turns white after application?  Or, do you mean the finish has a pebbly finish?  For the former, the problem is too much humidity.  For the latter, as was said before, you need to apply it while still wet so it will flow out before it dries in place.  Also, as was mentioned before, the consistency of the flat coat needs to be correct... and that varies on the type of flat coat you're using.  The distance from the airbrush to the model surface cannot be too great or you'll end up with orange peel (as the paint has dried on the way to the model's surface).  Also pay attention to where the overspray is going... that will have an affect on the overall finish.  If you're experiencing that pebbly finish only in certain areas, I'll bet the overspray is going places you don't realize and it's drying on the model surface and causing the pebbly finish.

 

Since you mentioned that you don't have any issues with color or gloss coats, I'm inclined to think it's the consistency of the flat coat and that it's drying (at least partially) between the tip of the airbrush and the model's surface.  I recommend using as wide a spray pattern as you possibly can, as close as you can without running with as low a pressure as you dare use.  You may need to experiment on a mule to see  what works best for you. 

 

For a flat finish, I use Testor's Dullcote straight out of the bottle (thinned appropriately).  For a slight "sheen" to the model (like the surface of a wing that show's airflow over it), I will go over  the dullcote with very fine steel wool (0000 grade) knocking down the dead flat finish. 

 

 

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