nichenson Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 It isn't a collaboration. If you compare both there are several pieces that WnW decided to simplify or integrate into others whereas CSM has not. There is also some detail in areas that CSM has decided not to do. It'll come down to fit and which versions as WnW also appears to offer a little bit of options. Pup7309 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out2gtcha Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 Yay! My wallet doesn't like it, but my brain does..... The star struts are so fugly cool that I'll definitely be picking one of these up from WnW. I too feel a bit bad for CSM, as there are others out there like me who love WnW kits for the quality and buildability, but are not enough into WWI to venture much outside of WnW. Pup7309 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrov27 Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 (edited) Maybe competition is good for the customer but not sure how well that works out in the long run? WNW is going to win any long term competition as they have the almost unique situation of having a billionaire backing them. I could see CSM just saying screw doing any more 1/32 subjects as it is too risky - if they pick something that likely would sell well then there is even more risk that WNW will do it and announce 2 seconds after CSM does to kill their sales. The HB D.I surely seemed pretty safe to CSM as a choice but just interesting enough that it might sell well, and WNW had not touched anything from that front as yet but here we are. The subject field of 1/32 WW1 model aircraft is a pretty narrow interest and demand only going to be so much; it would seem that the two companies having some level of communication about this would make sense but what do I know Edited August 31, 2019 by petrov27 typo Pup7309 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radub Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 Just now, petrov27 said: Maybe competition is good for the customer but not sure how well that works out in the long run? WNW is going to win any long term competition as they have the almost unique situation of having a billionaire backing them. I could see CSM just saying screw doing any more 1/32 subjects as it is too risky - if they pick something that likely would sell well then there is even more risk that WNW will do it and announce 2 seconds after CSM does to kill their sales. The HB D.I surely seemed pretty safe to CSM as a choice but just interesting enough that it might sell well, and WNW had not touched anything from that front as yet but here we are. The subject field of 1/32 WW1 model aircraft is a pretty narrow interest and demand only going to be so much; it would seem that the two companies having some level of communication about this would make sense but what to I know Competition will work in the same way competition works for cars, telephones, hamburgers, toothbrushes, socks, anything... People make choices every day for whatever reasons. Choice is never bad. Radu Pup7309 and Jan_G 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STWilliams Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Radub said: Competition will work in the same way competition works for cars, telephones, hamburgers, toothbrushes, socks, anything... People make choices every day for whatever reasons. Choice is never bad. Radu For the consumer, no. But history is littered with companies gone bust, out-competed by the competition. Competition is good if everybody starts out in the same place, with the same access to finance, information, etc. That's where WNW are miles ahead of CSM. I'm not sure how much CSM have invested in their model, but I hope it's not going to land them with too much of a loss. Pup7309 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrov27 Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Radub said: Competition will work in the same way competition works for cars, telephones, hamburgers, toothbrushes, socks, anything... People make choices every day for whatever reasons. Choice is never bad. Radu And is the demand for telephone, hamburgers, toothbrushes the same amount as for 1/32nd scale WW1 model aircraft? Not sure it is? Will the demand support two companies doing the same exact thing? My fear is not, and we will have one less 1/32 scale model manufacturer because they see no point of trying to compete with WNW. So we get fewer 1/32 subjects in the long term. Thats all im saying - I guess we will see how it plays out. Out2gtcha, Pup7309 and thierry laurent 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radub Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, petrov27 said: And is the demand for telephone, hamburgers, toothbrushes the same amount as for 1/32nd scale WW1 model aircraft? Not sure it is? Will the demand support two companies doing the same exact thing? My fear is not, and we will have one less 1/32 scale model manufacturer because they see no point of trying to compete with WNW. So we get fewer 1/32 subjects in the long term. Thats all im saying - I guess we will see how it plays out. Is there enough demand for Ferraris when we have enough Lamborghinis already? What is the market for IWC watches when we already have Rolexes? Every market is limited. Competition, especially in small markets, leads to innovation, often amazing innovation. Look at how great Tamiya's 1/32 models got because they had to be better than the competition in this scale. Look at how good other manufacturers' models are getting because they have to keep up with the leaders in the industry. Competition is good. It is good for the customer. Radu Edited August 31, 2019 by Radub Jan_G and Pup7309 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierry laurent Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 Saying that competition is good for the customer is only partly true and it is typically a short-term perspective. If there is a clear lack of equilibrium, this results in the fact some companies are often leaving a market. So, if prices may be initially controlled by the competition, the variety of offer decreases in the long run whereas prices finally go up again. I studied economics and can tell you that the invisible hand regulating an open, competing market arena is alas just a mantra, a fairy tale or an ideological standpoint. Pup7309 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radub Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, thierry laurent said: Saying that competition is good for the customer is only partly true and it is typically a short-term perspective. If there is a clear lack of equilibrium, this results in the fact some companies are often leaving a market. So, if prices may be initially controlled by the competition, the variety of offer decreases in the long run whereas prices finally go up again. I studied economics and can tell you that the invisible hand regulating an open, competing market arena is alas just a mantra, a fairy tale or an ideological standpoint. You are writing this from an affordable pocket-sized device that connects to a worldwide network through radio waves instead of compiling it for two weeks on a room-sized multi-million dollar computer connected to just a handful of other computers via a cable. Competition did that. All along the way someone said "I can do a better and cheaper product". Yes, there were lots of companies that died along the way. They were the companies who said "no one can compete with us, we do not need to be better". Think of every computer company that went bust (Compaq, Gateway, IBM, Acorn, Digital, Amstrad), and remember how they were in comparison to what we have now. Competition did that. You can now buy a state-of-the-art hundred-part model kit from Japan, pay for it instantly with a universally-accepted payment format from a handheld device and get it dropped at your doorstep in a few days. Every single element of that previous sentence is the result of someone saying "screw status quo, I can do better." That is what competition does. Radu Pup7309 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericg Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 All good points Radub but this is a narrow field of competition where there isn’t much of a selection of different companies to choose from that have a reasonably level playing field. Whilst WnW have certainly raised the bar across the industry for quality and overall customer experience with packaging and instructions etc, I think in this case they need to be a little more understanding of the smaller manufacture who are prepared to give it a go as well. Maybe in the future no one will want to try and release something new in the fear that the big guy will roll out the same kit practically in the same time frame. This can’t be good for anyone except Wingnut Wings. AlanG, scvrobeson, thierry laurent and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STWilliams Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Radub said: Is there enough demand for Ferraris when we have enough Lamborghinis already? What is the market for IWC watches when we already have Rolexes? Every market is limited. Competition, especially in small markets, leads to innovation, often amazing innovation. Look at how great Tamiya's 1/32 models got because they had to be better than the competition in this scale. Look at how good other manufacturers' models are getting because they have to keep up with the leaders in the industry. Competition is good. It is good for the customer. Radu I agree, it's good for the customer. Less so for the unsuccessful companies. The worry is CSM might be one of those. Pup7309 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertD Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 It's just nice to see some of the more obscure planes being offered. The strange looking planes are part of the history of aviation and I love it. Everybody knows the Camel, DR.1and some of the other more common planes but some of the less successful planes are interesting in themselves (not saying this one was not a good plane as I don't know enough about it yet). And I for one really like the 2 seaters. Pup7309 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhwinter Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 4 hours ago, Out2gtcha said: Yay! My wallet doesn't like it, but my brain does..... The star struts are so fugly cool that I'll definitely be picking one of these up from WnW. I too feel a bit bad for CSM, as there are others out there like me who love WnW kits for the quality and buildability, but are not enough into WWI to venture much outside of WnW. Hey, try to venture outside WnW and go buy a Nieuport XVII from CSM! You‘ll be surprised: The quality of everything - from research to the plastic to the instructions and the packaging - is TOP quality! Just try. (I did.) scvrobeson, Out2gtcha, Alburymodeler and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radub Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 20 minutes ago, STWilliams said: I agree, it's good for the customer. Less so for the unsuccessful companies. The worry is CSM might be one of those. Why? They just need to compete, offer something better. Maybe better price. Maybe better quality. Maybe better detail. Maybe better accuracy. Maybe better distribution. Maybe better decals. Maybe better options. Maybe all of the above. There are a multitude of ways in which a competitor can win. Radu Pup7309 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierry laurent Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 This is like comparing apples and oranges... Telecom and computing are mass markets. Modelling and more particularly large scale models is a niche market. Economics clearly show that rules in such narrow markets are quite different. For instance you have narrow profit margins that if decreasing for whatever reason cannot be easily compensated by an extension of the customer basis. In such circumstances, the fact that according to your business model this asks either each of your models to be clearly profitable or either just some of your range need to be in such a situation (as you are in a dominant position) is a clear difference of advantage between actors of a small market. scvrobeson and Pup7309 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts