Out2gtcha Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 1 hour ago, rhwinter said: Hey, try to venture outside WnW and go buy a Nieuport XVII from CSM! You‘ll be surprised: The quality of everything - from research to the plastic to the instructions and the packaging - is TOP quality! Just try. (I did.) The problem is as I said, my lack of interest in WWI. I've got lots of WnW kits, but it's just as much the packaging, instructions, individual sprue bags, the detail in the historical photos, and the overall WnW building experience. Pup7309 and rhwinter 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scvrobeson Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 11 hours ago, thierry laurent said: I had that strange feeling they could quickly propose the same kit but could not imagine this would occur so quickly. I am sad for CSM has they do not have the funds of WnW. However, if I had been in their shoes, I would not have chosen such a topic. Selecting for instance an Italian boat plane or another French fighter would have decreased that competition risk... Too bad. It seemed perfect for CSM. Wingnuts has shown zero overtures to do an Austro-Hungarian plane, which is probably why CSM thought it was good ground for them. Doubt they saw WnW pulling one out of nowhere. Matt Pup7309 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scvrobeson Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 11 minutes ago, Out2gtcha said: The problem is as I said, my lack of interest in WWI. I've got lots of WnW kits, but it's just as much the packaging, instructions, individual sprue bags, the detail in the historical photos, and the overall WnW building experience. The CSM kits are just as well presented. Matt Pup7309 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radub Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 31 minutes ago, thierry laurent said: This is like comparing apples and oranges... Telecom and computing are mass markets. Modelling and more particularly large scale models is a niche market. Economics clearly show that rules in such narrow markets are quite different. For instance you have narrow profit margins that if decreasing for whatever reason cannot be easily compensated by an extension of the customer basis. In such circumstances, the fact that according to your business model this asks either each of your models to be clearly profitable or either just some of your range need to be in such a situation (as you are in a dominant position) is a clear difference of advantage between actors of a small market. Computers were as "niche" as it could get when they first appeared. They were the preserve of the wealthiest institutions. Yet, due to competition, we got a better product that anyone can afford. Not so niche anymore, If anyone told IBM fifty years ago that the majority of the population on this planet would have a computer in the pocket, they would laugh. But it happened, IBM is gone and we have computers everywhere, in our pockets, on our wrists, in our household appliances, in our light switches, everywhere, and it happened because of competition. Niche computers became mainstream. Similarly, WNW made a niche subject mainstream. Who imagined 10 years ago that there would be such interest in WW1 aircraft? Now it is an open field. CSM may be just the first challenger. More may follow. The funny thing is that in this thread, everyone seems to be worried about CSM. It appears to be a foregone conclusion that WNW will win and CSM will collapse. What if CSM will come up with a cheaper and better Hansa Brandenburg? It is good that there is a competition. It will lead the companies involved, ALL companies, to be even better, and that can only be good for us. Radu Pup7309, D.B. Andrus, RBrown and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STWilliams Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Radub said: Why? They just need to compete, offer something better. Maybe better price. Maybe better quality. Maybe better detail. Maybe better accuracy. Maybe better distribution. Maybe better decals. Maybe better options. Maybe all of the above. There are a multitude of ways in which a competitor can win. Radu Radu, the free market is supposed to be a level playing field. Everybody has access to capital & information, so the best person wins. But in the case of WNW, they have practically unlimited access to capital. A poor selling kit or two or three will offer no problems for them, such are their financial resources. CSM may have invested, say $50k in tooling, design, test shots, etc. That might be their major project for the year, the one they will profit off. Now they learn WNW - the outstanding 1/32 WWI kit manufacturer, who have yet to make a "bad" kit - are making the same aeroplane in the same scale. WNW have access to retailers all over the world, they sell direct, they are well know, they have a huge customer base. CSM will, to some degree, be damaged by this. They'll either lose profits they thought they would make, or even make a loss. Look at Roden, who exited the WWI 1/32 market after WNW issued a few kits. Look at the fact that other manufacturers are generally avoiding 1/32 WWI aeroplane kits. They struggle to compete. WNW are like the Amazon of the 1/32 WWI aeroplane kit world. Alburymodeler, Pup7309, thierry laurent and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzas Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 I feel this is really bad for CSM. I cannot see how it can be good for them at all. They probably saw this as a safe bet, and are now trying to figure out damage control. I just hope the funds they invested in their model were from saved earnings and not from a loan. Alburymodeler, Pup7309 and STWilliams 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radub Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 Roden lost the competition with WNW because their product was of lower quality. But CSM has a very good quality product. CSM is not Roden. I have their Nieuports and they look every bit a good challenger to WNW. If their Hansa Brandenburg is as good (or better) than their Nieuports and they sell it cheaper than WNW, then you just watch what happens... Radu Pup7309, nichenson and esarmstrong 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzas Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Radub said: Roden lost the competition with WNW because their product was of lower quality. But CSM has a very good quality product. CSM is not Roden. I have their Nieuports and they look every bit a good challenger to WNW. If their Hansa Brandenburg is as good (or better) than their Nieuports and they sell it cheaper than WNW, then you just watch what happens... Radu Do you honestly think those that have never bought CSM are going to buy CSM when they can buy the same thing from tried and true WNW? And for those of us living closer to New Zealand, do you think we are going to buy an item that will have astronomical US postage rates added to it? You are not considering all of the millstones that are being hung around the neck of CSM because of this. Gaz Pup7309 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radub Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, Gazzas said: Do you honestly think those that have never bought CSM are going to buy CSM when they can buy the same thing from tried and true WNW? And for those of us living closer to New Zealand, do you think we are going to buy an item that will have astronomical US postage rates added to it? You are not considering all of the millstones that are being hung around the neck of CSM because of this. Gaz It does not really matter what I believe. Don't get me wrong. I have no connection with CSM. I had a few drinks and good laughs with the people from WNW. I have a lot of their kits and I have the biggest admiration for their product. My point here is not that one company is amazing and one is rubbish. Equally, this is not about declaring undying love or blaspheming. I got my fair share of dealing with WNW zealots and lynchmobs to know better. My point is that this climate of emerging competition will lead to great things for us. One way or another we will get better models. Radu Pup7309 and nichenson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertD Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 I think there is room for both companies. Look at how many P51's are out there. Yet they keep coming out with more. The WW1 area has been largely ignored. I for one will try both eventually. Pup7309, scvrobeson and nichenson 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzas Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, Radub said: One way or another we will get better models. Radu No, we won't. We will get an end to competition. If you look at the timeliness of the announcements of HKM Lancaster and the announcements of the WNW Lancaster, then consider the same thing with the Hansa Brandenburger, WNW looks a bit more mercenary. Coincidences? Only WNW can be certain. Pup7309 and AlanG 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pup7309 Posted August 31, 2019 Author Share Posted August 31, 2019 (edited) If this is true I imagine CSM will be a bit more secretive in the future if they are bringing a new kit to market in 32nd scale. Edited August 31, 2019 by Pup7309 Gazzas and Alburymodeler 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericg Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 Two very big announcements and releases by two smaller companies have now been overshadowed by WnW in recent times. Competition or not, this doesn’t sit comfortably with me at all. I hope it is a collaboration or something but I really believe that there isn’t room in our niche hobby for this to happen! Gazzas, Pup7309 and scvrobeson 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nichenson Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 11 pages. Last time WnW announced something big it went over 40 and it still isn't even out. Let's shoot for 50, because why not argue of speculation and nonesuch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericg Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 52 minutes ago, nichenson said: 11 pages. Last time WnW announced something big it went over 40 and it still isn't even out. Let's shoot for 50, because why not argue of speculation and nonesuch. Isn’t this a discussion forum? Pup7309, AlbertD, esarmstrong and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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