Relic Plywood pieces from a BF-109 G10

[Scale32]

9 hours ago, Antonio Argudo said:

thanks Rob,  I guess the more and more relics and information available the better,  also using a spectrocolorimeter  will be more precise for color measurements,  next I will try to match with comercial paints to see what comes out of it, so this is a chart of my relics, just an approximation guide because lighting and monitor calibration will change from one to another but the hue is close as I can get with what I see in the flesh , anyway , cheers

Interested to see what the specto gives you as a mstch. Obviously you know that the spectro will only give you closest match according to the data base of the paint system your using. Cheap paint system, limited database. In my experience as an auto spraypainter using Spies Hecker with huge database it is still pretty hit and miss which still baffled me! Having said all that I wish you good luck with it all.

 

Cheers Bevan 

[Antonio Argudo]

23 hours ago, AlexM said:

The relatively new AK interaktive book Real Colors of WWII, contains the Farbtafel zur Behandlungs und Anwendungsvorschrift für Flugzeuglacke, Ausgabe 1938 (color chart), which - in contrast to its strange name - was according to the book issued in 1941, not 1938. On this color chart, the colors up to 73 have their own describing name (like green or yellow), while the last three colors (74, 75, 76) are just called by their number, with no further name.

 

Cheers

Alex

thanks Alex, that's pretty interesting info, I don't have that book but have seen a review on youtube from which I took this screenshot,  rlm 74 is the one on the bottom left and looks quite similar to my relic,  dark grey without any green tonality,  would you confirm that? also it shows a great picture of a 109g which I had  seen only in low resolution and colors look quite blueish , quite cool!

 

 cheers

Edited August 9, 2019 by Antonio Argudo

[Guest Vincent]

On 8/7/2019 at 6:13 PM, Antonio Argudo said:

I  did a dissection  of a paint piece which fleaked apart, I used a scalp to go through the different layers starting from the bottom one, what I found was:

the first layer on to the wood was the green antifungal,  as I continued scrapping  a thin metallic layer appeared, I have no clue what it was but was very supercicial, then a grey layer shown, very thick, it remind me of squadron putty texture, there was a lot of it, next another thin layer of the metallic paint, this was the last before the superficial paint layer, at this point it was so thin that it started to break which also demonstrates that the top coat color paint was super thin itself.

cheers

 

The metallic layer is aluminium powder charged lacquer to provide UV protection to the wood before the smoothing putty was applied (the thing you compare to squadron putty)

Edited August 10, 2019 by Vincent

[Martinnfb]

Thanks for sharing Antonio.

[AlexM]

16 hours ago, Antonio Argudo said:

thanks Alex, that's pretty interesting info, I don't have that book but have seen a review on youtube from which I took this screenshot,  rlm 74 is the one on the bottom left and looks quite similar to my relic,  dark grey without any green tonality,  would you confirm that? also it shows a great picture of a 109g which I had  seen only in low resolution and colors look quite blueish , quite cool!

 

 cheers

 

 

 

The way the color on the chart appears in the book is actually more greenish than bluish. Not like the blue parts you posted (at least as they appear on my screen). Then, on the color photos of the 109s in the book you mentioned, as well as one of a Me 262, the darker color can hardly be described as greenish, just gray, maybe slightly bluish. The photos appear to be faded, so hard to tell.

 

Generally spoken, how reliable are reprinted colors in a book?

 

The topic remains interesting

[Antonio Argudo]

thanks Alex for your comment,  I appreciate  it!

 

these are the 109 tail  parts from where I bought mine,  although cracked because of the crash,  some mud and dirt easy to clean,  the colors have preserved their  saturation quite well

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Antonio Argudo

[Guest Vincent]

This guy sell parts at an insane price. So thank you but no thank you

 

You can get much better samples in europe for 10€ at max

[Antonio Argudo]

1 hour ago, Vincent said:

This guy sell parts at an insane price. So thank you but no thank you

 

You can get much better samples in europe for 10€ at max

Hi Vincent, 

well, this is the first time I ever bought a relic, I started recently searching in ebay for stuff like this,  I would love to buy  more for 10 e  if you referme where to,  I personally paid 50 e  for 5 pieces and feel it was worth it, also depends on you passion about it  and how much  are you willing to pay 

cheers

 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Antonio Argudo

[Antonio Argudo]

I would consider this expensive 

28.000 euro for this 

 

https://www.lux-military-antiques.com/en/p/messerschmitt-bf-109-gk-camouflage-vertical.htm

[rigor]

Vincent prob already has one. 

[Guest Vincent]

28000€ for a rudder fin that was never installed on an airframe and picked from a stockpile at the end of the war ?

 

These people need to get real

 

Of course if they find naive people willing to pay, why not

[quang]

 

9 minutes ago, Vincent said:

Of course if they find naive people willing to pay, why not

 

They're not naive, they're rich.

[Guest Vincent]

Also about the colors :

 

These are lacquers class 33 and these were known to be a bit different hue wise from the metal lacquers. So i would not make too many conclusions on these 5 fragments you have. They just show what wooden parts on  LW a/c would look like. Nothing more

 

 

V

[LSP_Matt]

An interesting discussion. Knowledge isn't sacred and science isn't averse to the notion of having established dogmas challenged.  There's no downside to being better informed, discovering something new or re-establishing the prevailing wisdom.

 

However, engaging in this process really need not be so passionately adversarial.  Computer monitors and photographs are instruments that may or may not reproduce colour accurately. The human visual system interprets information but it's accuracy is affected by,  a mans genes, neural processing or even ambient luminosity.

 

The only 'museum level' method of determining colour accurately is to use a scientific instrument. An instrument that measures the reflected wavelength of light of different samples but which is calibrated from a standard. A reflected wavelength analysis will objectively determine what the colours of any objects are irrespective of our potentially fallible human visual system. I looked it up...a Multiangle Spectrophotometer.

 

And even then, as Vincent has alluded, a knowledge of chemistry and variations of what might have been applied also contribute to understanding of what 'might' have been.

 

This should be fun, collaborative and informative.

 

Matty

[Antonio Argudo]

36 minutes ago, Vincent said:

Also about the colors :

 

These are lacquers class 33 and these were known to be a bit different hue wise from the metal lacquers. So i would not make too many conclusions on these 5 fragments you have. They just show what wooden parts on  LW a/c would look like. Nothing more

 

 

V

well for me that would be exactly what I was looking for, what really interest me, these colors on this period of war! one of the best 50e I invested lately 

 thanks vincent for your reply,

can you please explain something  more about "Lacquers class 33 "?

cheers