Relic Plywood pieces from a BF-109 G10

[Antonio Argudo]

I think there has been also some confusion with the late introduction  repaint of 74 with a dark green color, some name it rlm 82/83 like in this example 

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by Antonio Argudo

[Antonio Argudo]

26 minutes ago, Jennings Heilig said:

They are still 80 years old, and you have no idea what conditions they have been in for 79.5 of those 80 years.  There is a literal MOUNTAIN of documentary evidence on the shades of the mid-war Luftwaffe camouflage colors, including from the paint manufacturers themselves.  I'm pretty sure that if all that evidence was wrong, we'd haven heard about it long before now.  

 

yes they are that old but it is really a matter of exposure to the elements what really  matter,  a painted object can completely fade  just in weeks under strong sunlight as an example meanwhile other can be preserved for hundred or centuries completely intact as an egyptian or pompeii fresco for example, it is all about the exposure of elements, my relics are very good shape in terms of saturation, I also conducted some light   sanding to see if there has been fading of the paint and the result is similar in the inside, I also contacted to "Camouflage paints" business and contrast information within about  the rlm74, he has original samples as well and he coincides with me about being into the blue tonality, 

http://www.auradesign.eu/camo_paints.htm

the official name of this shade was RLM 74 Dunkelgrau / Graugrün (Dark grey/Grey Green)

45 minutes ago, Jennings Heilig said:

 If it were blue, why would the RLM have named it grey-green?

that is the million question dollar right there and all controversy begins, in the nomenclature,  because photos and relic evidence don't show any green instead,  there is no simple  one relic  today that show that green in question, and I have seen many... I'm still waiting for it

cheers

[Antonio Argudo]

are you telling  me that this is not grey blue but green? see the IG helmet which is green

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by Antonio Argudo

[Antonio Argudo]

 

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Antonio Argudo

[Antonio Argudo]

I guess you just shown the thought to stick closed to what other said in the past as sacred   no matter what instead of an open mind to evaluate with new evidence and research and make your own opinions, I'm on the second type, cheers

Edited August 7, 2019 by Antonio Argudo

[RBrown]

Antonio, your observations seem entirely valid to me, especially since your conclusions are based on the relic in your possession.   I also think that photos can be relevant evidence and should not be dismissed out of hand.

 

 

Rob   

Edited August 7, 2019 by RBrown

[D.B. Andrus]

+1

[Antonio Argudo]

thanks Rob,  I guess the more and more relics and information available the better,  also using a spectrocolorimeter  will be more precise for color measurements,  next I will try to match with comercial paints to see what comes out of it, so this is a chart of my relics, just an approximation guide because lighting and monitor calibration will change from one to another but the hue is close as I can get with what I see in the flesh , anyway , cheers

Edited February 2, 2020 by Antonio Argudo

[Antonio Argudo]

until you bring me MOUNTAINS  of relics that shows RLM 74  in green color quite clearly!

cheers

Edited August 7, 2019 by Antonio Argudo

[RBrown]

I do not believe that the RLM assigned names to the colors or referred to them other than by their numbered designations.  I have seen RLM 74 described as Dunkelgrau as well as Graugrün and Grüngrau.  These terms are from the manufacturers or post war but not the RLM.

 

I think that freshly applied RLM 74 was a dark gray with the slightest tinge of green.  As the color weathered however that slight tinge of green faded rather rapidly, resulting in the dark gray seen in the photos and artifacts posted above. 

 

Almost without exception all the paints of the period were subject to weathering effects that effected their appearance, and in some cases even their effectiveness as camouflage. Remember the late war greens RLM 81 and 82, were developed specifically to address the weathering noted with RLM 70 and 71, which tended to rapidly weather to a dark gray.

Edited August 8, 2019 by RBrown

[D.B. Andrus]

A couple of thoughts to tag on to Rob's post.

One, the variance in paint batches, improper mixing before application, improper thinning, inconsistent application - too thick, too thin - etc., changes the paint's appearance. There were rules and instruction about all of this, but as the war dragged on not all were followed all the time.

Two, of the swatches I have, Merrick x2( Monogram & Kiroff), Eagle Editions(Warnecke & Bohm), the 74 to my eye in each is a dark, slightly warm gray - with the Kiroff slightly lighter and warmer.

 

Cheers,

 

D.B.

 

[Gazzas]

I know we love to argue about colours.  But the fact is that every batch was different.  The is no wrong answer if your colour is close to what your eyes tell you.

 

mix your paint and enjoy the fact that there are variations between your Luftwaffe models that are painted in the same scheme.

 

Gaz

[MikeMaben]

1 hour ago, Gazzas said:

       mix your paint and enjoy the fact that there are variations between your Luftwaffe models that are painted in the same scheme.

 

Yep , I may not know what's correct , but I know what I like . 

 

[Antonio Argudo]

1 hour ago, Gazzas said:

I know we love to argue about colours.  But the fact is that every batch was different.  The is no wrong answer if your colour is close to what your eyes tell you.

 

mix your paint and enjoy the fact that there are variations between your Luftwaffe models that are painted in the same scheme.

 

Gaz

definitely that's a great tip mate!!! cheers 

[AlexM]

Interesting discussion, as allways when its about color shades

 

The relatively new AK interaktive book Real Colors of WWII, contains the Farbtafel zur Behandlungs und Anwendungsvorschrift für Flugzeuglacke, Ausgabe 1938 (color chart), which - in contrast to its strange name - was according to the book issued in 1941, not 1938. On this color chart, the colors up to 73 have their own describing name (like green or yellow), while the last three colors (74, 75, 76) are just called by their number, with no further name.

 

Cheers

Alex