red Dog Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 I'm trying to assess the possibility to build a Colombian KFIR C10 in the near future. (block60?) I have the very old revell Mirage V (revell blue thunder) and the conversion kit for a Kfir C-2 from Isracast. The original idea was to build an IAF 3 tone camouflaged Kfir C-2. With the release of the Mirage III from Italeri, I am investigating if the italeri kit would be more suitable. One thing is sure, in the case I am going for an Israeli Kfir, the supersonic wing bags would be better. In the case of doing a FAC, they apparently carry the larger fuel tanks (the same the belgian mirage V carried) and these are not in the Blue thunder kit either. They are though on the revell repop of the italeri mirage III. (Kit 03919) and incidentally that kits also has the 500L supersonic wing bags. So it's definitely a better possibility than the italeri. But trying to find a model that is more uncommon, I started to find the FAC KFIR quite appealing. The first challenge would obviously be the nose modification supporting the Elta EL/M-2032 radar. It does look to me like the front section of a Phantom nose. I really like the possibility to load up a Spice The AAR probe and the nose really makes me think about a Kurnass. Obvioulsy I will need to source the particularities of the modernized Columbian Kfirs As I don't have much documentation on this, I'm seeking a bit of hindsight from you guys Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierry laurent Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Hi, It looks like a Phantom nose but the diameter is noticeably smaller! I'm wondering if that specific mark was not announced recently by that South-American company that is just launching a full series of South American Mirage/Kfir based conversions for the Italeri kit. There was recently a thread about that in this forum. In any case, if you want to start with the Italeri kit and the Isra set, it is interesting to know that the only Isracast part that cannot be easily adapted to fit the Italian kit is precisely the nose! The resin part has out of my memory a diameter difference of close to two millimeters (it is smaller than the nose). I should check but I'm wondering if the Lella Press book dedicated to foreign Mirages has not a scale plan of that bird. Cheers Thierry red Dog, Out2gtcha and Rick Griewski 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierry laurent Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 I just checked the Antarki models pictures on Facebook and it looks like that nose is not part of the four ones they intend to release in their sets. Too bad as the look of that version is terrific. This is somewhat understandable as up to now they announced modernized versions of the Mirage but none of the J-79 engined versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kagemusha Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 You're probably best getting this as a reference, then selling it. Rick Griewski 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheetah11 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) Hi Red Dog The Italeri kit is a better starting point for this conversion. There are a few points to take note of depending on the amount of detail you want to add. The faults of the Italeri kit will need to be corrected. The Isracast set should provide some of the detail you require but as the set was made for the Revell kit things like the undercarriage bays are not needed. They are way too shallow anyway. The Kfir undercarriage is a larger unit than the one found on the Mirage III with a compression rod to compress the larger oleo on retraction and other detail changes. At least the Isracast set can supply some of the vents and pylons. Additional vents and panels will still need to be added as well as wheels. I do not know about the Isracast wheels and nozzle but the Aires F-104 nozzle can be used. I do not see any photos of the Colombian Kfirs with the 1700 liter tanks. The tanks in the pictures are 1300 liter tanks but of Israeli origin. They have a different tail to the French build ones. On the Kfir they are about 12 inches further forward than on the Mirage and also on a different pylon which makes them almost horizontal instead of the nose down attitude of the Mirage tanks. The Italeri tanks are a bit small with the Revell 1300 liter tanks correct but with the pylon wrong. The pylon for the Kfir needs to be scratch built anyway. The 500 liter tanks can be used as is. The nose is a bit tricky as it has a couple of interesting contours and additions. Maybe you can get this one as a starting point from John at Scaleworx. He is on the forum as Renegade. Nick Edited July 23, 2019 by Cheetah11 spelling Marcel111, Uncarina, red Dog and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red Dog Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 Thank you Laurent, Quote In any case, if you want to start with the Italeri kit and the Isra set, it is interesting to know that the only Isracast part that cannot be easily adapted to fit the Italian kit is precisely the nose! The resin part has out of my memory a diameter difference of close to two millimeters (it is smaller than the nose). That's good to know. I went checking if the same issue was on the revell kit, and I'm happy to report that it matches perfectly. Quote I should check but I'm wondering if the Lella Press book dedicated to foreign Mirages has not a scale plan of that bird. If you could do that, that would help. Then I would try to source that book with confidence as I am looking for scale drawings to engrave completely the Revell old mirage... Quote I just checked the Antarki models pictures on Facebook and it looks like that nose is not part of the four ones they intend to release in their sets. Bummer, thanks for checking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red Dog Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) Thanks Cheetah, as well for your input about the italeri and conversion. Quote The pylon for the Kfir needs to be scratch built anyway. The 500 liter tanks can be used as is. If I decide to go for an IAF Kfir C-2, then I am probably planning to use the 500L tanks and put 2 bombs on it. It seems to be an IAF field mod to the RPK that usually carry 4 bombs on the 500L tank. if you have further information about that I'm interested as well. Although it doesn't look too hard to do. Quote The nose is a bit tricky as it has a couple of interesting contours and additions. Maybe you can get this one as a starting point from John at Scaleworx. He is on the forum as Renegade. Are you saying that nose already been done in resin by Renegade? Many thanks for your input gents, it really helps Edited July 23, 2019 by red Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierry laurent Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Well, the Isracast fortunately mates correctly the Revell fuselage as it was designed for that kit! With regard to the Lella press book, I can summarize my feeling in just two words:"Get one!" It covers all foreign variants with: - hundreds of pictures including some of the modernized IPs and other improved features; - basic dimension plans of the Kfir C2; - multi-view detailed 1/72 plans of the Mirage 5j, IIIS & 50EV; - 1/48th(?) color multi-view of the IIICJ, the 50EV, the 5V and the 5SDE; - 1/48th(?) detailed color profiles of the IIICJ, Nesher, IIIO(F), IIID, IIIS, IIIRS, IIIBZ, IIICZ, Cheetah, IIIEL, IIIEP, IIIEA, 5P, 5BR, 5DD, IIIEE, IIIEBR, IIIEA, Finger, 5COA, Kfir C7, 5G2, 50CM & 5BAC Elkan! - 1/32th(?) detailed color profiles of the 5RAD, 5DM. By the way the profile of the Cheetah would be interesting for you as it looks the nose is the same than the one of the Kfir CE. To me, currently, this is simply the best delta Mirage reference ever published if you are not interested in the French ones. It is not a walkaround type book but very frankly this is the only thing that is missing and considering the coverage, this is not really surprising! Hth Thierry red Dog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierry laurent Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I forgot I had a digital copy of Cheetah plans with a sufficiently high resolution to enlarge them in 1/32 scale. I also have some Mirage and Kfir plans in digital format. Just send me your email address in a PM and I will send them to you! stusbke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red Dog Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 Merci again Laurent. Pm is on the way and that's the book you reference, correct? I'll go get it, that will be a nice read for my coming holidays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alain11 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) Hi Nick your nose conversion fit very well with the old Revell kit ( as show on your picture ) but the Italieri kit has a larger section at " the glue point ", and , at this " glue point , the new nose has a so kind of ...." step" under the nose ..... I know you already experimented both of them ( revell , and italieri ), so what is your feedback about this Alain and now ,..about the Kfir C 10, another " hard point "..( and not the least) is the one piece windscreen ......among others ...... ( main gear legs are a pity ) as Kagemusha said , buy the 1/48 wingman kit to "understand " all the specific points of this version Edited July 23, 2019 by alain11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierry laurent Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 2 hours ago, red Dog said: Merci again Laurent. Pm is on the way and that's the book you reference, correct? I'll go get it, that will be a nice read for my coming holidays Yep, that's the book! Thierry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheetah11 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, alain11 said: Hi Nick your nose conversion fit very well with the old Revell kit ( as show on your picture ) but the Italieri kit has a larger section at " the glue point ", and , at this " glue point , the new nose has a so kind of ...." step" under the nose ..... I know you already experimented both of them ( revell , and italieri ), so what is your feedback about this Alain Hi Alain, I hope you are well. How is the Corsair progressing? For the fix on the nose there are two easy possibilities and one other is to modify the master. The one is to cut the Revell nose section behind the cockpit and graft it onto the Italeri kit if a donor kit can be obtained. The other is the solution I used and was to cut (sand) 1 mm from the top and 1 mm from the bottom from the front fuselage sections on the Italeri kit. On the Kfir the fuselage does not need to be extended, making it a lot easier. Here is a photo of all the parts taped together and as you can see it looks the part. But there are a lot more small detail differences between the Mirage and Kfir than is apparent at first. Here is the side in view of the nose. There is a small overhang at the bottom which is a small vent. Regards Nick Edited July 23, 2019 by Cheetah11 spelling Marcel111, Kagemusha, Out2gtcha and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alain11 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) hi Nick great surgery !! ..well , I have to say , I am caught between two stools ( if I dare to say ) .. Revell kit with all the improvements needed ( engraving ....etc....) or Italieri "easier" ???!!! ...despite of the three parts fuselage .... I have to admit that your way "looks" tempting" ....... the" black whistling death" is asleep for now , no time for modelling "red dog "...sorry to waste your post Alain Edited July 23, 2019 by alain11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red Dog Posted July 24, 2019 Author Share Posted July 24, 2019 No worries Alain So you guys are actually trying a conversion without the isracast kit, correct? Well, that's gutsy Cheetah, if copies of that nose are available. I'm interested. It's basically the single part I need to press the colombian venue of my future Kfir ... stusbke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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