Jump to content
Jennings Heilig

Okay, am I doing this wrong?

Recommended Posts

I'm trying to use Oracal 631 masks on this Shturmovik.  This has to be the MOST tedious, irritating thing I've ever tried to do on a model.  How the hell are you supposed to position these things precisely?  You can't see what you're doing for the mask.  And when it sticks, you can't really pull it up and reposition it without destroying the adhesive and rendering it useless as a paint mask.  

 

I've tried using frisket film to transfer them, with zero success.  It does nothing but gum up the entire works, and you still have the problem of not being able to precisely align the mask unless you happen to strike it lucky on your first shot.  

 

So far I'm 100% sold on waterslide decals and 0% sold on masks.  I've just spent the past hour putting two Soviet stars on, and they're still not lined up with each other, nor in exactly the right spot on the fuselage.  I'm about to call it done and go fishing in the decal dungeon for some appropriate sized stars.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Never tried masks, But when worked as a carpenter on luxury yachts, en we applied the name of the boat we used soapy water, so we could get in the right position. Thought this can maybe be a solution in your case, maybe not, but I would give it a try. You never now.

 

Cheers

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hrmmm.

 

Are you using the clear clear frisket film,  or the clear ones that are a bit frosted?

Also, I dont think I've ever used Oramask 631, I've only ever used 810.

 

I got the frosted ones by accident thinking they would work and it was impossible to see where I placed things after I got some good frisket film (low tac) masks became a bit easier after some practice. I think roundels and German crosses can be some of the hardest masks to use, as there are a lot of layers to keep straight. For me it's all about keeping the entire mask together, and weeding out the layers as needed, that way the spacing is maintained. That and making sure the gaps are filled on complex masks

 

20190317_124034-XL.jpg

 

20190329_165853-XL.jpg

 

 

HTH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everybody (and I mean *every* body) told me to get Oracal 631, and I've spent a fair chunk of change on a big roll of it, so if that's not the ideal masking material I'm going to be pretty pissed.  

 

The frisket film I got at Michael's was all they had, and it's essentially clear.  It's far too sticky for small delicate masks though.  The mask doesn't have enough oomph to stand up to having the frisket film pulled off of it without letting go of the surface it's on. 


Maybe I just need more practice, but so far I'm not a fan.  If I'm actually able to get this F**KING Silhouette software to work we'll have the masks for the 1/24 Hellcats, but that's probably the last of them I'll do.  I just think decals are the way to go for about 99.9% of markings on models.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frisket film is too tacky. There's something called transfer film which is what you need. It can be slightly frosty (my roll is) but has a  much lower tack than frisket. 

 

For me, what I generally do when using masks is:

 

1- Remove any excess material around the mask.

 

IMG_20160426_215442-L.jpg

 

This way you can isolate each element on the sheet.  

 

2-  Apply a similarly sized piece of transfer film to the mask.

 

IMG_20160426_215931-L.jpg

 

I applied it on an angle so that the corners of the mask are still accessible.

 

When you start to peel the mask off the backing paper, gently bend or roll the backing  paper away from the mask. It may not initially stick to the transfer film but go slowly. Press the transfer film back on as needed. Once the initial "bond" between the mask and backing paper is broken, the mask should stick better to the transfer film. The transfer film will then hold everything in place and keep it aligned. 

 

Then it's time for placement on the model. I generally start with one corner, lightly press it down and check the alignment. Do not remove the transfer film until you're 100% certain on the position. Once you are, press both down and then peel off the transfer film. 

 

Theo mentioned using a mild soap or water solution to float the mask into place. This can be done but it means you'll have to wait for the water to dry before you can paint. 

 

I think there's a place for both decals and masks. Certainly larger elements are better served by using masks. Or if they have to go onto compound curves.

 

Here's a recent F-16 tail I did with masks

 

IMG_20180724_144648-L.jpg

 

One thing I missed were some of the spots on the muzzle of the tiger. I was able to reapply the mask and touch it up. 

 

IMG_20180724_145434-L.jpg

 

IMG_20180724_145811-L.jpg

 

Hope this helps. 

 

Carl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks a bunch Carl. That's helpful.  I need to try to find some transfer film.  Do you have a brand name/label for what you use??  Apparently that term means different things to different people.  You can find all manner of stuff labeled as such, and I doubt it's all the same thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jennings, I'm using a no name roll I got from Amazon at the moment. It's a bit stiff but usable. I can't find it in my purchase history but I see that Oracal makes one. 

 

https://www.amazon.ca/Oracal-Transfer-Adhesive-Application-Cricut/dp/B07HNPFBSH/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?keywords=transfer+tape+for+vinyl&qid=1563510752&s=gateway&sprefix=transfer&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1

 

This should be what you need.  The best transfer tape I used came from a Canadian company called XXXMain. They did some awesome masks for RC car bodies which is where I learned how to use masks but I don't think they're around anymore. 

 

I have also used squares of the actual masking material in a pinch. It works but may not be  cost effective.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m 100% with Brian, Oramask 810 and clear frisket (slightly detacked). As he said the essential point is keeping the elements of the mask together on the frisket transfer tape as each is used and replaced, that way alignment is assured. Hate decals, masks every time for me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've tried the transfer film, and I personally just couldn't make it work. It's just too opaque for me to see where I'm putting the final product. As Max mentioned, I either detack normal frisket film since its crystal clear and allows you to perfectly see where the mask is being placed, or normally I try to buy the super clear frisket film marked "low tack". I found the transfer tape stickiness perfect, but the color a bit too dark/opaque.

Carl is right, in that normal frisket film is in fact way too tacky. 

The low tack air brush frisket film is almost always marked as such and works perfect as a transfer material for me since its so much easier to see final placement.

 

514aNTQZjVL.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Out2gtcha said:

I've tried the transfer film, and I personally just couldn't make it work. It's just too opaque for me to see where I'm putting the final product. As Max mentioned, I either detack normal frisket film since its crystal clear and allows you to perfectly see where the mask is being placed, or normally I try to buy the super clear frisket film marked "low tack". I found the transfer tape stickiness perfect, but the color a bit too dark/opaque.

 

Brian, going back a while, what was the material Ian at Ad Astra used to use?

He supplied a sheet of the masks and a second sheet of the masking material in squares which you peeled off and used to transfer the masks across.

Never had any issues as the adhesive on the masks and the transfer squares was really good.

 

Edited by PhilB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, PhilB said:

Brian, going back a while, what was the material Ian at Ad Astra used to use?

He supplied a sheet of the masks and a second sheet of the masking material in squares which you peeled off and used to transfer the masks across.

Never had any issues as the adhesive on the masks and the transfer squares was really good.

 

 

I believe so yes. I think it was just more Oramask 810. You're right,  the adhesive on 810 works perfectly as transfer material, my only issue was its opaqueness. It definitely works, I just have trouble seeing where Im placing the mask because of the darkness of the material. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Out2gtcha said:

I believe so yes. I think it was just more Oramask 810. You're right,  the adhesive on 810 works perfectly as transfer material, my only issue was its opaqueness. It definitely works, I just have trouble seeing where Im placing the mask because of the darkness of the material. 

Looks very similar to the post by BloorwestSiR above.

I used to just cover a third/half of the mask so you could still lift and position it carefully whilst seeing where it was going.

:D

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have used Frisket film from Hobby Lobby many times, my trick is to stick it to the mask and then slowly peel back the film and mask, while making the pieces you dont want stay behind, trying not to move them on the backing, that way if you need to mask in reverse, you still have perfect alignment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi All,

 

Some thoughts on vinyl paint masks.

 

When I transfer vinyl from the backer to a substrate at the signshop, I use a very low tack tape, I just call it paper tape, transfer tape is another name or application tape. While still on the backer, I will often throw it on top of a light table and create a registration mark, just so I have a reference line in which to measure from. A window works just as well, if there isn't a light table around.

 

Once the vinyl has been located on the wing, and you've measured it at least six times ( I know, right?)..., tape down one edge, creating a "hinge" , fold it over remove the backer and place it gently on the wing..that way if you have to move it you have to...however I find that if i have to move it, then the second placement requires a bit more burnishing as some of the adhesive has been removed, if that makes any sense.

 

If the transfer tape seems to be holding onto the vinyl mask a bit too aggressively, warm air will soften the adhesive, usually your breath is fine, just get close to the transfer material, peel back an edge and breathe and peel..it should do the trick...if it doesn't another trick is a bit of water on the transfer tape, not a lot, don't drown it..you just want to soften the adhesive on the transfer tape enough to remove it from the mask.

 

When the mask is in place and and I'm happy with the placement, I just burnish it down on the edge, seems to work for me, but that's just me, you may want to burnish the whole mask down, up to you.

 

Another thing I do, is cut more than I need, so when I make mistake, which after almost 25 years of doing this kind of thing, I still do, then I have another mask in the line up ready to go..I hate having to re cut vinyl..and it's not like I won't use it again.

 

If it's a particularly complicated mask, or paint surface, I may do a sample on a spare piece of material going through the same steps of degreasing, priming, painting that I did on the scale model to see if there is any chance of a mask failure..we've all been there, so you know what I mean. it's a bit of extra time but I think it saves a lot of heartburn later on.

 

These are things that work for me..you may find something in the above that works for you. You may not.

 

Good Luck,

 

Pete

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always use Tamiya tape to mark out where I am going to place the mask on the model be it a roundel, a star or code letters, I mark the mask to allow the sections to be removed and replace accurately and I use spare mask material as transfer tape. I also do reverse masking, for example if I am using masks for red stars I will paint the star position red, then when it is dry place the mask over it and then paint the camouflage colours.

Here's a Spitfire that I used this on.

FyYlbo.jpg

Here's the mask fitted with the aid of masking tape and panel lines, the X helps align the other colour sections.

rZe3mQ.jpg

And the end result

gQUVeN.jpg

Masks are still tricky but for me they look better than decals.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

 

Edited by dennismcc
Spelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...