The Dreaded RLM 81 Braunviolet...

[Gazzas]

Needing this color for a future build, I set to find it.   I've seen it from gray to blue  to greenish to barely... and I mean barely... brown.  What a modeller's conundrum.

[BarryWilliams]

I dont think it is a problem.  Towards the latter stages of the war there were a lot of colour variations due to supply and manufacturing issues.  Given, as well, how colours weather in different ways we can get overly concerned about the exact shade.  No-one can really tell you what manufacturer got it right, if any has, so you make your choice based on your favourite paint brand.

[RBrown]

Remember that the  RLM stated that delivery of color charts for RLM shades 81 and 82 was not possible and consequently there would be no acceptance inspection of the paint's shade. The RLM never gave the either shade a descriptive name, but only referred to the shade by its number designation.  Messerschmitt used Braunviolet to describe RLM 81, Dornier called it Dunkelgrün and Bloom and Voss used Olivbraun. 

 

Here is a photo of an Erla built G in the late war greens.  RLM 81 can be seen forward of the fuselage cross.

 

 

Here is a Do 335 with the late war greens.

 

 

and Fw 190s...

 

 

[Rick Griewski]

I have Paint from three different companies staring at me from the paint rack.  They are all different approaches to the color.  I plan to do eenee miney moe and choose one.  HTH

 

Rick

[Gazzas]

So which colour is the lighter red brown I’m seeing on so many late war 109’s and Ta 152’s? 

[RBrown]

48 minutes ago, Gazzas said:

So which colour is the lighter red brown I’m seeing on so many late war 109’s and Ta 152’s? 

 

I would describe RLM 81 as a dark desaturated olive, somewhat similar to fresh USAAF Olive Drab 41.   I've seen models and artwork depicting late war aircraft painted with red browns and even shades of maroon, but I do not believe it to be close to historical reality,  even taking weathering effects into consideration. 

 

Both RLM 81 and 82 were developed in response to problems the Germans were having with the short life span of RLM 70 and 71.  The earlier greens (70/71) quickly weathered to a dark gray compromising their effectiveness as camouflage.  RLM 81 and 82 were extensively tested and approved for introduction because of their documented stability. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by RBrown

[Gazzas]

2 hours ago, RBrown said:

 

 

Both RLM 81 and 82 were developed in response to problems the Germans were having with the short life span of RLM 70 and 71.  The earlier greens (70/71) quickly weathered to a dark gray compromising their effectiveness as camouflage.  RLM 81 and 82 were extensively tested and approved for introduction because of their documented stability. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks!  I didn't know this.  It's funny that they started with green planes and finished with  green planes.   Color pics of weather worn 70/71 aircraft are pretty rare.

Here is the fading of which you Speak, I believe.  Kesselring used this as his runabout for quite some time. 

I modelled this aircraft but didn't have faith in the image itself, so my Dornier was green over which I applied a fade-coat.

 

Gaz

[RBrown]

Here is a scan of page 37 from Merrick and Hitchcook's  Official Painting Guide to German Aircraft 1935-1945.  The colors chips are based on  matches to actual surviving aircraft, from the top a Me 262, a Do 335 and a He 162.  Conceding to the limitations of color monitors etc., it is, none the less,  illustrative the dark olive nature of RLM 81.

 

  

Edited June 13, 2019 by RBrown

[Jerry Crandall]

Here is a sample of RLM 81 Braunviolett taken from a Bf 109 K-4 next to Dark Green. As you can see, RLM 81 is rich chocolate brown. These colors, along with RLM 82 Hellgrün, are the most common colors found on recovered Dora 9s. Also of interest is the British publication  The Aeroplane Spotter report dated  Nov. 29, 1945 of the camouflage color of the captured Ta 152 W.Nr.150158 that describes the colors as the upper surfaces as "various shades of green. On the fuselage the effect is mottled but on the wings two greens make a zig zag pattern." No Brownviolett.

    Cheers, Jerry

 

[Troy Molitor]

Hi Jerry,

The picture you provided above.   Is this a fabric piece off a rudder?   Just curious.  I see some zigzag stitching and I’m just curious to know if this came off a rudder.   Thanks for sharing the side by side comparison.  

 

Troy  

[Jerry Crandall]

Troy, I'm not sure where this piece is from sorry.

   Cheers, Jerry

[Gazzas]

9 hours ago, RBrown said:

Here is a scan of page 37 from Merrick and Hitchcook's  Official Painting Guide to German Aircraft 1935-1945.  The colors chips are based on  matches to actual surviving aircraft, from the top a Me 262, a Do 335 and a He 162.  Conceding to the limitations of color monitors etc., it is, none the less,  illustrative the dark olive nature of RLM 81.

 

  

 

Thanks for those color swatches!  You've really helped fill in this gap in my knowledge.

7 hours ago, Jerry Crandall said:

Here is a sample of RLM 81 Braunviolett taken from a Bf 109 K-4 next to Dark Green. As you can see, RLM 81 is rich chocolate brown. These colors, along with RLM 82 Hellgrün, are the most common colors found on recovered Dora 9s. Also of interest is the British publication  The Aeroplane Spotter report dated  Nov. 29, 1945 of the camouflage color of the captured Ta 152 W.Nr.150158 that describes the colors as the upper surfaces as "various shades of green. On the fuselage the effect is mottled but on the wings two greens make a zig zag pattern." No Brownviolett.

    Cheers, Jerry

 

Jerry,

     Thank you for posting the image of the sample.   It definitely defines those colors.

 

Gaz

[RBrown]

Here is a link to a short color film documenting two different late model Bf 109s.  The first is a G-10 painted in the standard grays and the second is a K-4 in the late war greens...

Bf 109 color film 

Edited June 18, 2019 by RBrown

[Gazzas]

Ooh, that's useful!  Thank you!

[John1]

9 hours ago, RBrown said:

Here is a link to a short color film documenting two different late model Bf 109s.  The first is a G-10 painted in the standard grays and the second is a K-4 in the late war greens...

Bf 109 color film 

Cool videos.  That K-4 must have just crash landed, it still has it’s gunsight which (along with the radio compartment access hatch) was one of the first items poached by Allied ground troops.     Anyone know what that control box is that is mounted on the cannon breech cover (see towards end of film)?   Never seen that before.