Railway modelling diorama destroyed by mindless vandals

[nichenson]

3 hours ago, DeanKB said:

Not wanting to defend those utter toerags, but throwing kids in jail just gives them free training in criminal techniques from vastly more experienced, older, nastier toerags, who end up being role models.

 

The problem is a very, very deep-rooted one of inequality. Kids like them are born into poverty and, like their parents, avoid education and have a non functioning moral compass.

 

The solution? Goodness knows.

 

Having said that, I'd love to be given 10 minutes with the little gits in a locked room. And a baseball bat.

 

After spending many years working corrections, I can say I really disagree with that statement.  It is more a general idea of personal pleasure VS work required with a dash of selfishness.  Most criminals do what they do because it is either a cheap thrill or they think or have seen a big return on very little effort or work.  The fact that most people get probation or plead to a lesser charge only enforces this.  I have seen so many educated people with decent vocation skills just say screw it.

[DeanKB]

5 hours ago, Markjames1968 said:

if you are going to insult people, get the insult right.

 

 

tow rag...… NOT toe rag

 

a Tow rag is a rag that sailors used to wipe their dirty backsides with after ablutions, that was then tied to a rope and towed behind the boat to:  A . get it away from the crew and B.  clean it in the water …….hence ..TOW... Rag..

Thanks, Mark.

 

A few points, if I may?

 

Firstly, most pointedly, you are wrong. If you take the trouble of correcting others grammar, in writing no less, please make sure you are correct, otherwise you look most foolish;

 

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/toerag

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2014/07/dot-wordsworth-origins-of-the-toe-rag/

 

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-toe1.htm

 

Secondly, the context of my post was pretty clear - I was making a wider point about social inclusivity, actually defending the people involved as being a product of their environments, rather than simply insulting people. 

 

Thirdly, thank you again - I can now put you on ignore and be spared any more (incorrect) grammar pedantry from you.

 

[DeanKB]

5 hours ago, Kagemusha said:

Must confess I always thought it was toe-related, thanks for the history lesson. 

 

He's wrong, it IS 100% toe related.

[DeanKB]

3 hours ago, nichenson said:

 

After spending many years working corrections, I can say I really disagree with that statement.  It is more a general idea of personal pleasure VS work required with a dash of selfishness.  Most criminals do what they do because it is either a cheap thrill or they think or have seen a big return on very little effort or work.  The fact that most people get probation or plead to a lesser charge only enforces this.  I have seen so many educated people with decent vocation skills just say screw it.

I disagree with your disagreeal, (!) but explanations and continued debate, although interesting, will inevitably involve discussions around factors deemed political in nature, which tend to go from freezing to boiling in no time whatsoever.

 

And then it will all go belly-up in no time.

[Radub]

There are plenty of people from "disadvantaged" areas who chose to take a different path and went on to achieve a lot in life. It is all down to personal choice. These people CHOSE to do this. It has notthing to do with society, class, disadvantage, poverty, etc. There is nothing here that some politician can exploit for votes, there is nothing here that "activists" can use to further their "cause." These kids chose to break in and destroy other people's property just for no discernible gain. They chose to invest time and effort into doing the wrong thing. 

I will not spend any time seeking explanations for these idiots. I am really sorry for the people whose years-worth of work was destroyed. No amount of punishment or insurance can fix that. 

Radu 

Edited May 22, 2019 by Radub

[DeanKB]

 

16 minutes ago, Radub said:

There are plenty of people from "disadvantaged" areas who chose to take a different path and went on to achieve a lot in life. It is all down to personal choice. These people CHOSE to do this. It has notthing to do with society, class, disadvantage, poverty, etc. There is nothing here that some politician can exploit for votes, there is nothing here that "activists" can use to further their "cause." These kids chose to break in and destroy other people's property just for no discernible gain. They chose to invest time and effort into doing the wrong thing. 

I will not spend any time seeking explanations for these idiots. I am really sorry for the people whose years-worth of work was destroyed. No amount of punishment or incusurance can fix that. 

Radu 

Detailed, sustained academic research would suggest you are wrong. A lack of role models, a lack of money, a lack of resources, a lack of education, a lack of a stable family, a lack of rules,  etc, all equates to a lack of hope and is associated with hugely increased levels of crime.

 

Why does poverty produce so much crime - is it  just coincidence, if it has nothing to do with it?

 

 

[Radub]

These are just excuses. These kids chose to do what they did. No one forced them. There is nothing in that long list of "reasons" that forced them to spend time and effort on smashing something for no gain.

Radu

[nichenson]

3 minutes ago, Radub said:

These are just excuses. These kids chose to do what they did. No one forced them. There is nothing in that long list of "reasons" that forced them to spend time and effort on smashing something for no gain.

Radu

 

It all boils down to how one perceives the universe.  Some people believe you are a product of your environment and as such have no free will.  This however does little to explain the majority that actual abide by law and contribute to society.  There are others like myself who believe in free will as well as opportunism.  There are two sets of people, those that weigh the need of society, the law, and what they have and those that weigh what they want with their impulsiveness.  Very rarely is there a Jean Valjean anymore.  I seriously doubt poverty had anything to do with this vandalism.  If anything it was an opportunity by a couple of kids to have some cheap "enjoyment."

[DeanKB]

I am shocked by some of the attitudes shown here - as if bad behaviour and criminality is simply a choice that has nothing to do with inequality or poverty, when research has proven time and again that they are inextricably linked. But people know better, and poverty and inequality are just "excuses", and criminality is simply a "choice".

 

It's mind-numbingly, over-simplistic thinking that simply ignores evidence that is counter to people's beliefs.

 

I used to think LSP was a group of like-minded people, but that is obviously not the case.

 

Very sad.

[Michael931080]

Let's not stoop to the level of what these thugs are Dean.  Society is divided in many ways, yes.  But when a person begins to say to that groups like ourselves are not sensitive to what is happening here by "ignoring evidence that is counter to peoples beliefs".  Not everyone on this board has expressed their own feelings in this matter, so you cannot say this is very sad.  That is just an opinion of yourself in this matter.

 

We all have our own way of dealing with each event today differently.  Some choose to speak out, others donate, while some just sit quietly and read about it.  That unfortunately is the world we live in today.

 

We must move forward and continue to enjoy and help in our own way.

[nichenson]

Most of my life has been studying criminology.  I have been exposed to almost all the theories out there.  There are some studies that do show that they are correlated but they cannot prove causation.  Evan at that, the actual percentage of crime that can be correlated to those conditions is often low.  Simply increasing equality and decreasing the amount of poverty has also shown little if any impact on crime.  Almost everything though can be explained by a person's moral compass and decision making.  No amount of money or equality affects those.  It is cultural and self/community learned.  BTW, doing attacks on people's grammar and opinions does little in the way of winning an argument. 

[Radub]

10 minutes ago, DeanKB said:

I am shocked by some of the attitudes shown here - as if bad behaviour and criminality is simply a choice that has nothing to do with inequality or poverty, when research has proven time and again that they are inextricably linked. But people know better, and poverty and inequality are just "excuses", and criminality is simply a "choice".

 

It's mind-numbingly, over-simplistic thinking that simply ignores evidence that is counter to people's beliefs.

 

I used to think LSP was a group of like-minded people, but that is obviously not the case.

 

Very sad.

 

This has nothing to do with disadvantage, class or poverty. There are thousands of people in that neighbourhood, all under similar stresses or strains. Yet only these kids did what they did. If "environment" was the reason why they did what they did, then there should have been a riot of thousands. Why was there no such "uprising" to "make right" the "social wrong" posed by railway models? Because they made individual choices. And these perpetrators should be held accountable for the outcome of their choice. No more excuses. 

Radu

[Markjames1968]

1 hour ago, DeanKB said:

Thanks, Mark.

 

A few points, if I may?

 

Firstly, most pointedly, you are wrong. If you take the trouble of correcting others grammar, in writing no less, please make sure you are correct, otherwise you look most foolish;

 

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/toerag

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2014/07/dot-wordsworth-origins-of-the-toe-rag/

 

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-toe1.htm

 

Secondly, the context of my post was pretty clear - I was making a wider point about social inclusivity, actually defending the people involved as being a product of their environments, rather than simply insulting people. 

 

Thirdly, thank you again - I can now put you on ignore and be spared any more (incorrect) grammar pedantry from you.

Ignore this https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tow RagAND MY PLEASURE

Edited May 22, 2019 by Markjames1968

[Kagemusha]

Let's play nice chaps. 

[AlanG]

Just to add another prospective. I totally believe Dean is right that for the most part, poverty makes falling into a life of crime an easier option, not inevitable, but easier. Lack of good role models and the ability to have a place where you feel safe enough to vent your frustrations/worries to are essential. With the cuts in funding for youth services and such it's only going to be a problem that gets worse imho.

 

I come from a respectable family and was taught right from wrong and yet because of a few serious incidents in my life i went 'off the rails' (no pun intended) and resorted to petty vandalism and self harm. Yes i am from a different generation to these kids but the same issues can still be around these days.

 

I am in no way defending these idiots but i will say that there may be other factors at play rather than they just wanted a laugh.

 

That said i hope the modellers involved some closure and get the chance to replace their prized builds. The law will deal with the young lads, rightly or wrongly depending on you viewpoint.