1/18 Scale Blue Box F4U-1A Corsair Modification

[gbtr6]

Just curious, after all the fantastic work you've done what about painting it half and half? One side in paint, and one bare metal. Down the dorsal line of it. It would look fantastic on the shelf in bare metal. Just a thought.

 

Perry

[JayW]

8 hours ago, gbtr6 said:

One side in paint, and one bare metal.

 

Perry - you and a few others seem to like the bare aluminum look!  Well, it's a cool idea but it comes too late:

 

 

She is completely covered in green self-etching primer.  That coat is only a day and a half old.  I'll give it another day or two before I do some light sanding.  I will wait longer still to apply the next coat, whatever that may be.

 

I have made three test panels so far; with confusing results.  Each panel got a paint lifting test with masking tape, and a chipping test associated with the hairspray method - 

 

Panel "A":

 

 

 

Paint sequence for panel "A":

 

1.  Self-etching primer

2.  Tam AS-12 bare metal silver (rattle can)

3.  Tam XF-4 yellow green (air brushed)

4.  Hair spray

5.  Tri-color topcoat (rattle can)

 

Result - failed the paint lifting test, curiously only with the dark blue.  The yellow-green resisted paint lifting.  Chipping resulted in exposure of the AS-12 silver, very little exposure of the yellow-green (the overhead lighting makes the silver color look orange).

 

 

Panel "B" - not made.

 

 

Panel "C":

 

 

Paint sequence for panel "C":

 

1.  Self-etching primer

2.  Tam XF-4 yellow green (air brushed)

3.  Hair spray

4.  Tri-color topcoat (rattle can)

 

Result - failed the paint lifting test, curiously only with the dark blue.  The yellow-green resisted paint lifting.  Chipping resulted in exposure of the self-etching green, the yellow-green layer went away with the tri-color even though it was under the hair spray.  WTF??  No bare aluminum was exposed.

 

 

Panel "D":

 

 

Paint sequence for panel "D":

 

1.  Self-etching primer

2.  Hair spray

3.  Tam XF-4 yellow green (air brushed)

4.  Tri-color topcoat (rattle can)

 

Result - passed the paint lifting test.  Chipping resulted in exposure of the self-etching green, the yellow-green layer went away with the tri-color.  Any exposure of bare aluminum was from scraping.

 

 

OK I have some comments:

 

1.  The self-etching primer is doing a good job of resisting paint lifting. 

2.  Unclear why two (not all three) panels failed the paint lifting test.  The panel that passed had both the yellow-green and the top coat over the hair spray.  The panels that failed had the yellow-green under the hair spray.  ??

3.  Not real pleased with the "chipping".  I did this with warm water and a toothbrush.  Took some elbow grease to get it to respond.  Any ideas?  

4.  Were I to choose from the three, I would pick panel "A" even though it failed the paint lift test.  It is the only one that didn't expose the green self-etching primer; instead it exposed the silver, with perhaps a little yellow green - which is what I was after.

5.  I wonder if other modelers on LSP have experienced paint lifting with the hairspray method.  

 

I should also state that except for the self-etching primer layer, all paint layers were done in one day.  I wonder how the results would change if I allowed the paints to cure longer....  I also wonder if the results would change if the tri-color were applied with an airbrush rather than the rattle cans.  The Corsair will receive top coats from the airbrush.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by JayW

[Greg W]

Since you have some time before this project is at the paint stage, consider doing up some more test panels like you just have. One group that gets 72 hours for the coatings to cure and another group that gets seven days to cure. 

 

I think it would be very interesting to see the results after more time has transpired between application and tape testing.

[Oldbaldguy]

Have you tried applying masking fluid to the bare metal in places where you want it to show through?  
 

1.  Bare metal

2.  Dollops of masking liquid

3.  Etching primer

4.  Color coats

 

Once you’ve picked off the masker, the bare metal would have to show through equal to the amount of masker you put down.  If you were trying to recreate areas of chipped paint, you’d be done.  If you were trying to recreate areas of abrasion wear, then you’d have a good starting point for thinning and working the color coats back once they have dried.  Heck, as big as your model is, you could probably use random bits of torn masking tape on the bare metal and get the same result.

[JayW]

25 minutes ago, Oldbaldguy said:

Have you tried applying masking fluid to the bare metal in places where you want it to show through?  

 

Are you suggesting sanding off the self-etch in areas where I want silver?   That coat is self-etch is a done deal.

[Brett M]

2 hours ago, JayW said:

 

Are you suggesting sanding off the self-etch in areas where I want silver?   That coat is self-etch is a done deal.

Maybe use masking fluid over your silver paint instead then? Primer, silver, fluid applied with sponge chunks, yellow green, more fluid for yellow only chips, then top coat? You should be able to rub the masking fluid off afterwards.

[geedubelyer]

Interesting results Jay. Thanks for sharing your processes thus far.

 

What I'm thinking is that you may need to do a layer at a time to get the results you're looking for. 

 

I think if I were in your shoes after these tests I'd be inclined to spray the silver over the primer, apply the hairspray/chipping fluid (or whatever barrier medium you end up using) then the YZC. After studying the reference images I'd wear away a little YZC in the most heavily trafficked areas but not to the extent everything is silver. Once staisfied with the under weathering seal everything in a clear coat.

Another barrier layer (hairspray etc) over the remaining YZC followed by the colour coats. When removing the colour coats take care to remove a little more top coat over the areas you've already weathered.  This should leave areas of YZC and silver showing through. Also, any areas that are YZC only should only show the yellow as per the real deal. 

 

It's likely to be quite a time consuming process but as you've discovered so far on this epic journey, patience is a virtue. The more time you spend here, the better the final results. 

 

Maybe experiment a bit on some more samples and see how it goes. Also, would it be worth adding some more surface detail like in subject A to your practice parts to see how the edge of panels and raised details like rivets react under the layers of paint?  Using a mild abrasive over the rivet and panel line details could yield positive results. 

 

Good luck. 

[JayW]

8 hours ago, geedubelyer said:

I think if I were in your shoes after these tests I'd be inclined to spray the silver over the primer, apply the hairspray/chipping fluid (or whatever barrier medium you end up using) then the YZC. After studying the reference images I'd wear away a little YZC in the most heavily trafficked areas but not to the extent everything is silver. Once staisfied with the under weathering seal everything in a clear coat.

Another barrier layer (hairspray etc) over the remaining YZC followed by the colour coats. When removing the colour coats take care to remove a little more top coat over the areas you've already weathered.  This should leave areas of YZC and silver showing through. Also, any areas that are YZC only should only show the yellow as per the real deal. 

 

Guy - at this point it is likely that is what I will do.  Still accepting suggestions.  My only concern with what you describe is the number of layers and if the surface detail (panel lines and fastener marks) will be drowned out.  That plus paint lifting, which is a concern with other processes as well. 

[easixpedro]

While I can't speak to the black magic about the colors and paint lifting, here's how I've done the same: Now that you've got the etching primer on, I'd shoot it with Tamiya AS-12 then the YZC and the camo.  AS-12 goes down wonderfully and is rock hard. To chip/weather the top coats, I don't even bother with hairspray or chipping fluid. I just grab a piece of 0000 steel wool and gently rub.  Have also used polishing cloths of around 2K-4K grit to get the same effect.  Of course, I'd do it on the mule before jumping in with both feet. Don't know if YZC is offered the new Tamiya Lacquers, but that paint may be a little more resistant to pulling than their acrylic.  

-Peter

[geedubelyer]

I have a question regarding paint lifting. Are we talking about from masking? 

Has anyone attempted soaking their masks before removing them? 

Is it possible to soften the mask's adhesive before trying to remove the mask thereby making it less tacky and thus less prone to lift the underlying paint?

[Brett M]

1 hour ago, geedubelyer said:

I have a question regarding paint lifting. Are we talking about from masking? 

Has anyone attempted soaking their masks before removing them? 

Is it possible to soften the mask's adhesive before trying to remove the mask thereby making it less tacky and thus less prone to lift the underlying paint?

I’ve never tried soaking mine, but I have de-tacked them by stickying them on some other media, remove, repeat a few times. It’s helped where I’ve had paint lift previously.

[Oldbaldguy]

Ha!  This is so much fun!  This has to be the true definition of a group build - one model and a whole group of guys from across the planet trying to work on it.

[JayW]

3 hours ago, Brett M said:

but I have de-tacked them by stickying them on some other media, remove, repeat a few times. It’s helped where I’ve had paint lift previously.

 

Yeah - I think that is the trick Brett.

[MOB]

I would agree with the comment about adding more drying time between coats.  3-5 coats within a day may be asking a lot. Hard to say how all these different chemical layers are interacting.  Been following this fascinating project from the start.

[Maybach_man]

On 7/30/2022 at 7:58 PM, JayW said:

I am glad that I took the trouble to fab up a couple of "proof of concept" panels.  It paid off.  Lessons learned from that, plus verification that the concept was viable (hybrid panel with magnets), allowed me to produce four virtually error-free engine cowl panels:

 

 

 

 

Note also the dog-bone shaped splice plates at the joints.

 

The all important view from the front:

 

 

A rear view showing how well (or poorly) the panels lay down on the cowl flap ring:

 

 

It'll do!  I tell you - back to back magnets (as I used at the nose cowl) works great.  The panels just snap into place.  Magnets and stainless steel sheet, where the magnets are underneath a thin layer of plastic (I used this at the cowl flap ring), doesn't work nearly as well.  The attraction is a little weak.  I had to do that way.  So I had to fiddle around a whole lot with the panel contours to get them to lay down decently.  

 

The insides - supposed to be painted either gray or white - I chose gray, and then got them nice and dirty:

 

 

You might wonder how I am to properly clock four cowl panels, where there is nothing for any of them to butt up against.  This is how I did it:

 

First I installed a small "alignment pin" on the bottom of the nose cowl:

 

 

That pin engages a slot on the inside of either bottom panel:

 

 

Installed it looks like this:

 

 

Once one panel is located, then the other three are easily located.

 

This shot shows that without a doubt, a panel (or all of them) can be removed to show the engine - a goal of mine since I started this build:

 

 

Lastly, for the "it's beginning to look like a Corsair" file, this shot:

 

 

 

I have sent off a 3D print order, and the parts will be in my hot hands in a week or two.  Included in that order are corrected cowl flap details, and once I have them I can proceed on the very difficult cowl flaps.   In the mean time - I dunno, I suppose I will finish skinning the wing upper surfaces.....  

 

Thanks for looking in folks.

 

 

 

If you are actually using Stainless sheet, it may be that it is Austinitic ( non magnetic)...that could be part of the issue 304 and 316 are two.