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1/18 Scale Blue Box F4U-1A Corsair Modification


JayW

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7 hours ago, Wolf Buddee said:

Are you going to bring up the outer surface details to the same level?

 

Wolf - a very good question.  Most with a critical eye would say the Achilles heal of my large scale modeling projects is the exterior finish - rivet patterns, panel lines, and painting.  To a certain extent I am OK with that - that just isn't where my best skills are.  I am not a master airbrush painter as you and so many others on this wonderful site are.  Mr. Surfacer - uh....what's that.  Also, I am TERRIBLE at panel line restoration or creation.  And my Dzus fasteners are, well, a bit sloppy. 

 

This Corsair is going to receive the 3-color paint scheme that so many of the -1A's received.  And I hope to weather it severely, like we see in those tropical Pacific period photo's.  Lord - I will probably fail.  I have never tried the paint chip methods I see so often on this site.  And all my other 1/18 efforts have been NMF.

 

Recognizing that I will probably never create a paint booth or purchase an airbrush, I am up for any suggestions for making the exterior of this model worthy of what is going on inside, and the scratch built portions.   Do not be shy!

Edited by JayW
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24 minutes ago, JayW said:

Recognizing that I will probably never create a paint booth or purchase an airbrush, I am up for any suggestions for making the exterior of this model worthy of what is going on inside, and the scratch built portions.   Do not be shy!

Not something I practice, but a very good hand painter explained to me that his best results are achieved by many very thin layers of paint, each layer brushed on at a different angle AFTER thourough drying.

Hopes this helps (at least for the larger uniform colour patterns.

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32 minutes ago, JayW said:

Recognizing that I will probably never create a paint booth or purchase an airbrush, I am up for any suggestions for making the exterior of this model worthy of what is going on inside, and the scratch built portions.   Do not be shy!

 

Jay,

 

First of all, your cockpit looks real, and there's no higher compliment that can be made than that. Just awesome!

 

As for not owning an airbrush, I have to admit I'm a bit shocked and since you said to not be shy, you MUST buy one and you must use it.  Any other method of painting will always be second rate compared to airbrush painting, period.  Some modelers, like you, are pretty good with brush painting and I admit and I'm jealous of their skills, since everybody needs to use a brush sometimes, but for a big beast like this, brush painting is going to look only so-so at best.  My strong suggestion is to get this bird ready for painting, then take an airbrush sabbatical and practice on plastic mules of some kind, with everything from primers to final paint.  Before you do this, I would post a thread in the Modelling Q&A: Tips, Techniques, and Photography Forum and ask for advice.  I bet you get a landslide of great tips to get you started and like everything in life, you need to start at the beginning sometime, or stagnate with what is comfortable and not stretch yourself.  We old dogs can still learn some new tricks, which is part of what makes this hobby so much fun!

 

Cheers,

Chuck

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2 hours ago, chuck540z3 said:

 

Jay,

 

First of all, your cockpit looks real, and there's no higher compliment that can be made than that. Just awesome!

 

As for not owning an airbrush, I have to admit I'm a bit shocked and since you said to not be shy, you MUST buy one and you must use it.  Any other method of painting will always be second rate compared to airbrush painting, period.  Some modelers, like you, are pretty good with brush painting and I admit and I'm jealous of their skills, since everybody needs to use a brush sometimes, but for a big beast like this, brush painting is going to look only so-so at best.  My strong suggestion is to get this bird ready for painting, then take an airbrush sabbatical and practice on plastic mules of some kind, with everything from primers to final paint.  Before you do this, I would post a thread in the Modelling Q&A: Tips, Techniques, and Photography Forum and ask for advice.  I bet you get a landslide of great tips to get you started and like everything in life, you need to start at the beginning sometime, or stagnate with what is comfortable and not stretch yourself.  We old dogs can still learn some new tricks, which is part of what makes this hobby so much fun!

 

Cheers,

Chuck

What he said

 

The scale and epic-ness (if that isnt a word, it should be)  of this build is off the charts and you have a huge audience.  Something in this scale needs the outside to match the inside for it not to look like a toy.

 

First up surface details.  They really are not difficult to do and often the results look much better than the work gone in.  Get yourself a set of plans and photos and study the area you are going to do.    Instantly your keen eye will pick up what looks wrong or needs addressing.  The Corsair used a lot of 'spot welding' so dont stress about riveting too much, but study the surface.  Even consider stressing the skin between the frames a little.  A model this big  will soak up those details easily.  And you will be surprised at just how simple it is to do.  Really it is.  Texturing and spraying the surface will turn your model into something 'next level' that will give you enormous joy and achievement to look at.

 

We are here all the way to walk you through anything you might want to know.  I will do my best to assist and you can be sure all here on LSP will do the same.

 

Cheers and stay safe buddy

Anthony

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Jay,

 

Firstly let me congratulate you on the massive milestone of joining the two cockpit halves! I certainly know the joy and finality that comes after working on individual components and sides for what seems like ever...... WELL DONE!!!!!! :) 

 

Secondly, and not saying anything that hasn't already been said, if you can pull off what you have on the cockpit, engine and wheelbays of this monster, especially considering what you started with, then you'll have no problems at all working some much needed magic into the exterior. You won't regret it for a second!

 

Happy new year and I can't wait to see what 2022 brings to this thread.

 

Craig

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4 hours ago, chuck540z3 said:

Some modelers, like you, are pretty good with brush painting and I admit and I'm jealous of their skills, since everybody needs to use a brush sometimes, but for a big beast like this, brush painting is going to look only so-so at best.

 

It doesn't surprise me to get lots of push-back with the air brush question.  Especially since the 3-color scheme is going to involve shaded transitions from one color to another, no hard masking the paint boundaries.  But I do not want anyone to think I would hand brush the exterior of this thing!   Rattle can spraying is what I had planned, with Tamiya AS20 white, AS19 medium blue, and AS8 dark navy blue.  I have already painted the underside of the center wing AS20 - warts and all (including the "Blue Box - made in China" engraving) - I believe a repaint is in my future.  I have done this sort of thing before, with rattle cans, where masking is done with a spacer of sorts underneath the mask (like masking tape wrapped around itself), providing about 1/8 inch or so of air space between the mask and the surface.  It's tricky.  I'd love to hear another option that has clear advantages.  

 

Surface prep, I think, is the area where I could use advice.  Already I've been presented with a Mr. Surfacer tutorial back when I was doing the engine (who was it who offered that....hmmm).    I think I am pretty committed to the "rivet divots" in most places - someone tell if this is folly.  And panel lines are fairly pronounced.  But I do not want the solution to be worse than what is already there.  And I would love to have yellow primer and/or bare aluminum showing through in places of high wear.  I would not want to get carried away (some modelers when they attain this skill get carried away, IMHO).  And Dzus cowl fasteners - what in the world am I to do there....

 

Lots of time to work this out - I absolutely love this kind of input.  We have each others backs, it seems.

 

Happy New Year - 2022 just has to be better than 2021. 

Edited by JayW
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Honestly, Tamiyas rattle can paint is some of the best paint out there IMHO, in terms of how they lay down and how they dry. With an experienced hand with them that knows how to deal with the larger amount of particulates that come out, they can really look good in the end. 

In this case with the larger size of the beast, I think it will work even better than on 32nd stuff. 

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Meanwhile on that topic of magnets, I have received some thin circular magnets (1/32 inch thick, 1/16 inch diameter), and some thin steel sheet stock (.004 inch thick) in the mail.  I believe that is going to do the trick for removable panels that need to be secured to contour.  

 

nQwI8B3l.jpg

 

Stick seems pretty good.  I'll do some testing on it very soon.  I know this is down the road a ways, but the decision must be made now so that I can proceed on the firewall bulkhead, which provides the aft edge of the engine accessory bay panels and the flange they attach to.  They are going to be removable so all that clap trap can be seen!  And the firewall is soon to come. 

Edited by JayW
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Hi Jay

 

That cockpit is an absolute work of art and huge congrats for getting to that pivotal moment where you button everything up and get the fuselage halves together :)

 

In terms of the exterior finish, I agree something needs to be done to uplift to match the quality of the rest of your work.

 

i reminded myself of what it needs to look like:

 

lp9ZY8.jpg

 

of course the first thing in comparison to the kit surface are the panel lines - here barely visible, the second, the rivets, also barely visible - but we know something needs to be there...

 

I think there are a few options

 

1. correct the kit surface and start again - hard to do given the work and fragility of that work in the areas you have already detailed. Imagine slathering over a very thin skim of bondo on the worst lines & divots, sanding it down, priming it with high build primer and then rescribing into the primer adding rivets & fasteners with an awl and scribing new panel lines - lots of work, lots of risk, but a great looking finish (I do this before starting, if I am going this way on a model)

 

2. Make the best of what you have - use an awl to add rivet detail to the kit plastic, scribe in any missing panels / hatches and basically live with the canvas you have but uplift it

 

3. skin it - with your skills I have no doubt you could skin this bird in litho. There is a lot to learn in terms of techniques, but get a mule, get the materials & get some practice and I think you could nail it. Especially given you knowledge & access to the drawings you could apply the same rules of detail engagement to the exterior as you have the interior - not easy, but once that skill is learned the weakness in all future large scale 21CT or Blue Box models goes away

 

4. a panel hybrid - looking at the F4U there are lots of non compound panels like those around the cockpit and upper cowling. you could do these in litho, or even ultra thin plastic card - again embossed or indented with an awl for rivets & fasteners - this would not only make those panels accurate (if ever so slightly proud), but could close up panel lines around them by bridging the gap to the next panel - they may 'stick out' but it may be only that problem rather than noticeable panel lines & divots so is a fair trade..

 

I am sure whatever you choose, you will nail it, but I think it is an inescapable fact something needs to be done :)

 

here to help if needed

 

Peter

 

 

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Dear lord... We'll have to conjure up some new accolades before you're done with this magnum opus, Jay.

 

Re: exterior, I'm in full agreement with the other fellas, considering the level of your work everywhere else it's a no-brainer, gotta get rid of those trenches and divots somehow. Granted, it'll be nerve-wracking but I have full confidence that you'll knock this one into the next county. Belay that, next state. Nah, scratch that, into the next galaxy.

 

GO, JAY, GO!

 

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Hi Jay, going back to what some of the esteemed membership have said, an airbrush would give you the finish this project deserves. 

I speak from experience. The two large scale F-15 fighters and the Su-27 that I've built in the past were sprayed with rattle cans. 

Using Tamiya Ocean grey the finish on the Eagles was quite reasonable but, getting control of the spray was the challenge. 

Straight from the can Tamiya spray comes out fast. It's very easy to put too much on. At best that's tricky to remove, at worst it could have dire consequences to your project. 

With even a simple airbrush and compressor set up you would gain much better control. 

It would make the layered weathering that you'd like to achieve so much easier. Finally, with practice and the correct paint mix the surface finish on the model will be perceptibly better than the rattle cans. 

 

With the talent you display I'm confident that your finished model will look superb whichever technique you use but it's definitely worth considering an airbrush. 

Keep at it and happy New year. 

Cheers. 

 

Edited by geedubelyer
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Well the firewall is going to wait until I get the instrument panel and coaming (or cowling) fabbed and installed.  That will also include the bullet-proof glass, the gunsight reflector glass, the gunsight, two armament electrical switch panels, and probably the windshield.  Alot of stuff.

 

The fine engineers at Chance-Vought must have run out of room to put clap trap in the cockpit proper, and decided to load up the IP coaming as well.  You will see in the next couple of posts.  Clearances are a concern what with the thick gage of the windshield compared to the real thing, so I felt I had to solid model it in Rhino:

 

Kpgpsojh.jpg

 

I worked very hard to try to make the fuselage and windshield just like the 21CT toy I have to work with.  What you see is version 2 (version 1 was too inaccurate).  From there, I could design the coaming assembly and the bullet-proof glass assembly, and associated parts.  Not all is modeled yet, but I wanted to show you how I am designing these things, with some assurance I don't get big surprises.  Example - look at how the bullet-proof glass is chamfered off to miss the windshield frame.  The real part has chamfers too, but didn't work well here, so I had to tweak them.  You will see the bullet-proof glass next post I believe.

 

Rhino can "unwrap" a formed thin part, like a coaming.  So I used that function, and all it did was to tell me I didn't do that hot a job solid modeling.  Hence version two above, and the first coaming detail in the trash.  The computer modeling took alot of time along with layouts and other research.  It was good to actually execute on the bench, even with the failures. 

 

It took three tries to get a good coaming shape that fits in the opening, despite my solid modeling efforts:

 

    GuGhBfrh.jpg

 

W3sygvTh.jpg

 

IbPiCZVh.jpg?1

 

Looks like a baseball hat bill.  Little victories.  I am soooo happy with the fit - it's gonna look awesome.  In real life the coaming is nothing more than another fuselage panel, about .10 inch thick., and the windshield is fastened to it.  For a pilot, the coaming panel would be a big knife in a crash, so of course the edges had foam rubber, leather coated padding.  You see that in the pic - half round plastic stock.  You will also note the perforations up front - for windshield defogging/defrosting.  More will go onto this thing - bullet-proof glass mounting fittings, the Mk VIII gunsight, and the armament electrical switch panels.  You will see all that next post.

 

Last time I showed a picture of this part of the fuselage Wolf asked me about skinning this beast, and off we went on a tangent.  Well look what I bought:

 

vHrIqzKl.jpg

 

That is 0.005 inch thick annealed aluminum sheet, or foil, about 25 feet of it.  Ordered from McMaster-Carr Metals - just an outstanding outfit far as I can tell.  I have still not committed absolutely that I am going to skin the Corsair.  But I am going to toy with it and decide pretty soon.  This stuff should be perfect for it.  This will be under the tutelage of Peter (Airscale), who is a master at it.

 

And speaking of Peter, more than a year ago, he sent me photo-etched instrument panel details per my own design.  Two sets, one brass, one silver steel (or tin?).

 

He does his IP's in three pieces - a backing for the decals, a layer that has the instrument bezel lips, and the top layer with the larger cutouts the bezel lips fit in:

 

  5nbYe1ih.jpg?1

 

He also provides alignment holes you can stick little pins through, which I did (the plastic jig on the bottom).  Good idea.  I didn't use the brass pieces that you see here.  I used the silver pieces to make this:

 

0ejkoOzh.jpg

 

Turned out pretty good by my standards.  I hope Peter is OK with it.  BTW, he also provided the decals which are from his Lope's Hope P-51C.  It had all the decals I need save one (the upper RH one) .  So I turned one upside down and just went with it!  I have been waiting over a year to do that detail.  Thanks Peter.  Next post you will see it installed.

 

So until then folks - stay healthy if you can.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by JayW
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I've been ordering fasteners and metal stock and tooling from McMaster Carr for 20 years or so. They have virtually anything in SAE or metric. Plus I'm in Wis and if you order before noon you should receive it the next day. They will answer the customer service phone personally and have been very helpful if you made an error or change contact/shipping information.

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