1/18 Scale Blue Box F4U-1A Corsair Modification

[Oldbaldguy]

Ref the canvass covers in the wheel wells:  if you get a chance, take a look at the covers in the wing fold area of a Douglas Skyraider to get an idea how these things look when installed. Lots of photos of these on Spads so they should be easy/easier to find. I understand it’s Douglas not Vought and that we’re talking several years later, but the concept (and probably the Navy requirements and specs) would be the same.  On the Spad, the fabric was fairly heavy and usually plain old olive drab with a heavy brass zipper.   Never been up in the wells of a Corsair, so I can’t speak to that, but you’ll get the idea.

[Kaeone57]

3 minutes ago, Oldbaldguy said:

Ref the canvass covers in the wheel wells:  if you get a chance, take a look at the covers in the wing fold area of a Douglas Skyraider to get an idea how these things look when installed. Lots of photos of these on Spads so they should be easy/easier to find. I understand it’s Douglas not Vought and that we’re talking several years later, but the concept (and probably the Navy requirements and specs) would be the same.  On the Spad, the fabric was fairly heavy and usually plain old olive drab with a heavy brass zipper.   Never been up in the wells of a Corsair, so I can’t speak to that, but you’ll get the idea.

Not to be a D..k, but Totally different Aircraft, and Manufacturer as you've stated!! Lol

[airscale]

Love it Jay - the depth you go to to get it as it should be is an example to me to never skimp on the research, and literlly build what you see or what is in the drawings

 

just unbelievable stuff

 

Peter

[Oldbaldguy]

15 hours ago, Kaeone57 said:

Not to be a D..k, but Totally different Aircraft, and Manufacturer as you've stated!! Lol

Ah.  Well.  Then I defer to your obvious superior knowledge of the subject, grasp of the obvious and exceptional command of the English language.

[JayW]

20 hours ago, Kaeone57 said:

Well...

 

1st- you mentioned for color on these covers, "gray like the rest of the wheel bay". That was the topcoat, SOMETIMES(Non Spec Insignia White on Counter Shaded/3(4)tone aircraft) over the "salmon" primer on early "Birdcage" F4U-1's. You're building an F4U-1"A", so your wheel bay's would be white topcoat on whatever primer at the time of your F4U-1"A" delivery.

 

2nd- It would either be a tannish, or whitish cover for the later airframes I would imagine. Difficult to ascertain as pic data is "VERY, Very" scarce. I'd paint it in a way to at least show that it's canvas/hemp and not an aluminum panel. Hopefully you get what I'm saying... Maybe??

 

3rd- The zipper! Tough one without an assisted item, 3D printed maybe, or some aftermarket flexible car addition bits!? Not sure. Also, not sure if the zipper had a flap/over lip covering the break on the zipper, hmmm?

 

I know that KD431, THE TIME CAPSULE FIGHTER, the Yeovaltin museums example has these covers still and you can see the overspray on them which makes me lean towards unpainted material!?

 

Found this on the top "markings" drawing:

 

 

"Interior wheelwell non-spec light gray or white".  And there is no information in any notes or anywhere else in the field of the drawing regarding masking.  Also, I possess the book on KD431.  In it, there is a color picture of the subject canvas, unzipped BTW.  Three things of interest in that photo:

 

1.  The entire wheel well is painted the same dark blue that the aircraft exterior is painted.  I am dead convinced that is NOT the factory finish, but something done in the field after delivery.  Or, perhaps this was done special for the British Corsairs...  Even the gear struts are blue. 

 

2.  The canvas cover was masked entirely (although without much care).  And, the material color is a tan shade.

 

3.  Primer'd parts in the photo are yellow ZC.   

 

So here is what I am agona' do.  The wheel well is going to be light gray over yellow ZC, if for no other reason than to give it some contrast to the white exterior finish that will grace the underside of the wing.  The other reason is the spar segments are already light gray.  So that ship has left the harbor.  The canvas color will be tan, and it will not be terribly "wrinkly", as Alfonso rightly suggests.  But it will be made of some sort of foil or tape (maybe duct tape - stay tuned).  The zipper - honestly, the zipper, scaled to 1/18 is ridiculously small - about 0.014 inch wide track, only slightly wider at the slider and pull tab.  I am going to experiment with things.  Nils (N.H. 71) has shown us how he used alum foil tape to good effect.  I will also mask other items like the door actuator rods, some but not all hydraulic lines, hydraulic hoses, etc.   Lastly, and some of you aren't going to approve, the landing gear struts and drag links and actuator are going to be silver.

 

I thank all of you for inputs - it's part of what makes LSP so fun and interesting. 

 

Jay   

 

    

Edited September 10, 2021 by JayW

[JayW]

17 hours ago, Oldbaldguy said:

Ref the canvass covers in the wheel wells:  if you get a chance, take a look at the covers in the wing fold area of a Douglas Skyraider to get an idea how these things look when installed. Lots of photos of these on Spads so they should be easy/easier to find.

Spad!  LOL I never knew that was a nickname.  Well I didn't find any color pics of those fabric covers but I did find this:

 

 

What a beast!  My guess is that anyone alive in that pic still remembers that fly-by.  I had a model of a Skyraider as a kid - I used to put it next to the window unit air conditioner we had in our living room and watch the prop spin.  Kids....

[Kaeone57]

10 hours ago, Oldbaldguy said:

Ah.  Well.  Then I defer to your obvious superior knowledge of the subject, grasp of the obvious and exceptional command of the English language.

Hard to show emotional verbage in full content on here! Didn't say/type anything to you in a bad way, but you took it as such. Not the first time you've done that either. Soooo, in response. Don't get your panties in a bunch, sugar butt!! LoL

 

That's why I put the LoL. Since I'm not an English proficiency expert, like you stated, I'll just withdraw. I do know my aircraft subjects though, Especially USN Subjects, and I know them, More than Well... So I eject. Be Peace Brotha... and All Y'all!!!

 

Gonna let y'all, do your thing, however y'all wanna do your thing. Sad, I know plenty and could, and wish to share, but for what???... Peace... I'm OUT!!

 

My apologies Jay, Build, Scratch that Corsair into existence! Not trying to de-rail your build at all. Phenomenal Work, keep at it. Enjoy, and Best to you Bro!

 

Oh, Btw. It's called "The Time Capsule" for a reason. As I understand it, she's original, and it shows!! All later, after April 1944 USN aircraft, inc. the Corsair were overall Glossy Sea Blue which included the Wheel Bay's as well... More on this but..Why?

 

Later, Y'all, LSPers, and all y'all uptight don't stand right, and you English teachers, I'm out, GTFOH!!!

 

I speak more than 1 language, BTW, so excuse me for not getting this one language right, you "English teachers" non "Corsair, USN Speakers"... LoL

 

I'm so gone from this place, I left last week!!! Bye.. Bye.. LoL

 

Alfonso

 

[JayW]

Time for an update!   First, a much needed decal for each landing gear strut:

 

 

Finally a decal that can be printed onto clear decal paper.  Much easier to deal with....  This was easy - there is a drawing for the placard with all the right words, colors, and font size.  

 

Then on to the wheel well ribs.  First it was time to rid the wing inner surfaces of all the old details:

 

 

Lotsa heavy stuff had to be dremeled away and scraped/sanded smooth.  We have all done it I think.  Hard work on these big scale monsters...

 

That left room for all the structure I am to produce for the wheel wells, in addition to the already completed main spar of course.  First up was the rear spar, or "rear beam" as Vought calls it.  This part was straight forward, although the contour is really tricky:

 

 

 In real life that part is uber-complicated on its aft face, with all the flap support and flap gap hinged door supports - stuff i will not be modeling.  But the forward face is almost blank, except systems runs which you will see sometime later.   

 

Next was the first of four wheel well ribs - the inboard aft 10705 rib with the fabric cover.  The structure part was REALLY hard!  My digital model just isn't accurate aft of the spar although it serves as a starting point.  So this was an exercise in fabbing up a part (a web), seeing how it fits, and then either throwing it away and starting anew, or trimming it to make it fit.  Here: 

 

 

 

 

You can see it has a stiffened front web, a stiffened rear web (both had to be made a couple of times to get a decent fit), a lower cap, and an upper cap.  The big rectangular open bay is for the fabric cover.  And you can see there are lots of penetrations for systems runs and wiring.

 

We talked some about this fabric cover.  In the end, I made it out of masking tape!  I merely folded a piece in half (sticky side in), and cut it to shape.  It took a couple of tries.  Then I fashioned a zipper out of .02 x .02 strip, sanded down to about .01 inch (about the best I could do with such a tiny detail and my skill level):

 

   

 

Each side has a 90 deg folded flange, or flap, with meng nuts.  Like an idiot, I didn't use tan masking tape, which would have almost been the right color!  No, I used blue masking tape.  So I painted it brown.  It has a bit of texture which I thought might make it look the part.....  So there it is.  And here is the rib with the upper wing skin temp installed, to give you a better idea how it will look:

 

 

 

Needs stringers.  Patience - they will come.  Yup - I am going to show you each of those four ribs as they are completed whether you like it or not.  They are really hard projects!  Folks - give me some time, and I will show you a totally bad-to-the-bone Corsair wheel well.  That I can guarantee.  I'm excited.  So stay tuned! 

Edited September 21, 2021 by JayW

[brahman104]

That is super cool Jay! The canvas came out perfectly I've gotta say  I've been there with parts like that Web.... real chicken and egg stuff! You continually amaze/impress Jay. Those decals are ace too!!!!

 

Craig

[Anthony in NZ]

There's really only one word to describe what is going on here...EPIC!

 

Wonderful work Jay...I am hooked for sure

[TAG]

Hi, Jay

 

Yet again, mind fully boggled, that canvas flap looks dead on. Here's a pic:

 

Hard to say if the outer part of the flap was painted or left in natural canvas, but they definitely had to keep paint off the zipper, so it might've just been easier to mask off the entire flap when the planes hit the paint shop, gotta keep that line moving! Although there is paint on the upper left corner, so who knows, I'm just spitballing here, really.

 

In any case, hats off to you, now that you've got the 3DP chops to back up your already ridiculous scratch-building skillz I can't wait to see what's coming next!

 

Cheers,

Thomaz

[JayW]

2 hours ago, TAG said:

Yet again, mind fully boggled, that canvas flap looks dead on. Here's a pic:

 

Thomas - many thanks for that pic.  You have inadvertently provided me with info I just could not glean from the engineering drawings WRT some systems routing near the rear spar (one a fuel tube, the other a sheathed wire bundle).  Yahoo!!

 

That is not the first pic I have seen where the canvas cover sees paint overspray or some otherwise messy masking.  I also know from my years at the Big B (Boeing) that when interior paint is applied per specification, factory personnel are not all that apt to be that fastidious when it comes to masking off details that should not receive a top coat.   And drawings that govern painting often do not get into enough specifics for good masking.  So quality assurance personnel cannot call for any corrective action.  Hence - on a humming assembly line, the primary aim would have been to not paint the zipper or the flap.  And that's about it.  Maybe protect the door actuators and door hinge joints.  Hydraulic lines, bulkhead fittings, even flex hoses - so what if it gets overspray.  It's ugly, but functionality is not compromised.  BTW - it is evident that in the pic you supplied, the final topcoat was done after the aircraft was already in service.  Looks like blue first, greenish blue later...

 

That makes painting the wheel wells, for me, all the easier.  I am perfectly capable of creating ugly painting details! 

  

Edited September 22, 2021 by JayW

[Ironwing]

Jay

Youre really killing it here brother. Remarkable work and execution. The struts you pictured are just marvelous and the rest of the job has just taken off(not a pun). Attention to detail? No one does it better than you. This is all simply marvelous.

 

Best

Geoff

Quote

 

 

[JayW]

Time flies when you are having fun.  So where am I?

 

First, the inboard rib on the other wing is complete, and looks the same as the one I already posted.  That is a victory, but one I need not show pictures.

 

Second, it became apparent to me I will need the landing gear doors in order to do the gear door actuators that adorn the aft face of the spar, plus the hydraulic hoses for those actuators.  Of course, of course!, the gear doors supplied are just not going to do it:

 

 

Nice try, 21CT, but they are waaaay too thin.  Plus the peripheries are wrong.  I can do better - with 3DP.  To do that, I have to create the doors digitally:

 

 

 

I tell you - those were hard to do, and time consuming.  For me anyway.  All those depressions - OMG!  That is why I will have these 3D printed.  And the gooseneck hinge fittings were a challenging integration effort - the thick wing skins make them quite different from the real parts on the real airplane.  Fortunately the drawings for all these parts were fantastic.  So very soon I will send the door models (not the hinge fittings) off to my 3D print supplier, and hopefully get some parts soon.

 

In the mean time, work continues on the wheel wells.  Here is a picture of the real thing where I have labelled some of the components I am trying to accurately model (or have already):

 

 

 

The stringers on one side have been done.    Here:

 

 

The paint wasn't even completely dry when I took this shot.  It needs weathering of course.  I made them out of .06 x .06 square rod on top of .01 x .125 strip.  In real life they are box sections, and as you can see they terminate on that "intermediate rib", which I have represented.  On the other side of that intermediate rib will be stringer continuations with deeper channel cross sections, which will terminate on the OB rib - the component next on my list.

 

And with the upper and lower wing parts together:

 

 

It's comin' slow but sure.  Stay tuned!

 

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by JayW

[chuck540z3]

Really looking great Jay!  That gear well detail is top notch- and you're only half done!

 

Cheers,

Chuck