1/18 Scale Blue Box F4U-1A Corsair Modification

[TAG]

Jay, you sir, are certifiable. But in a good way!

 

Looking forward to the next installment, whenever it may be.

[JayW]

18 hours ago, wingman777 said:

so what are you doing with the much improved versions of these 1/18 kits once youve completed them.   museum, auction, hanging from the ceiling?

 

Got a kick out of this post.  Yeah that's a problem!  I have a couple of 1/32 scales displayed in the living room above the TV on open shelves in the entertainment center hutch.  They are not intrusive or ugly, and kinda add to the decor of the den.  My wife even likes them (some).  But these monsters?  I don't want to sell or give to a museum - I want to keep them forever.  But even the smallest (the Mustang) is huge compared to the largest 1/32 model.  I had some quarter circle shelves built for two corners of my office, which almost do the trick:

 

 

Even then the wings protrude a bit, and I dread the day when someone (not me) comes in the office and accidentally knocks one off the shelf.   I could re-position the shelves higher I suppose.  But the cockpits are a treat at this scale, and would not be visible.  Then again, if higher the wheel bays would be more visible.  

 

It's the P-38 that is the real problem.   Even with one of the wings removed at the tail boom, it is still larger than either the P-51 or P-47, mostly due to its length and the twin tails.  It currently resides on top of a big shelf unit, not well seen, and gathering dust.  Not good.

 

The Corsair is going to be easier, because it is about the same length as the Mustang, and the wings can be folded.

 

[airscale]

On 9/2/2019 at 7:23 PM, JayW said:

 

I

 

 

 

 

 

So daunting to think I have 8 more to go, but I will do it on and off again. 

 

I know what many of you will say!  3D print!  But I have to purchase and learn a CAD program, and frankly I am not sure if this shape will do well 3D printed.  Will the fin edges do OK?  

 

 

Wow Jay, that is a lot of work in that one cylinder - rather than 3D print it, I would try using it as a master and casting copies of it - it will take you as long to learn that as it would make another cylinder

 

I use this stuff and a few youtube tutorials and you could probably get away with this being a one piece mould..

 

looking forward to see whats next

 

Peter

 

 

[JayW]

 

2 hours ago, airscale said:

Wow Jay, that is a lot of work in that one cylinder

 

Oh how right you are Peter.  You no doubt realize what I am up against. 

 

Ah yes resin molding.  I still have my alumilite kit from the P-47 effort.  You may recall I resin molded a prop blade with good results (after a second try, the first being a failure), and some complete cylinders - none of the cylinders for that effort came out very well, and those that I used were on the back row of the R-2800, where they could not be as well seen.

 

It could be that limiting the mold to the cylinder head instead of the entire cylinder would be a step in the right direction.  Minimum thickness is 0.01 inch for the cyl. head, whereas the lower cylinder minimum thickness is 0.005 for the cooling fins.  That thin, and the molding process just breaks down, especially with multiple use of the mold.  The tiny reverse cooling fins on the mold tend to tear off during demolding.   At least that is what I experienced on the P-47.  Perhaps a 2-part mold of the cylinder head only could solve some of the material flow issues, but I doubt it would solve the mold durability issue.  Asking a rubber mold to make 8 parts with 0.01 inch fin gages is alot to ask.  

 

Perhaps it is worth a try.  Thank you for suggesting it.  And, perhaps the kit you linked to is actually better than the one I got from Hobby Lobby!  But at a minimum, I am going to build another master.  I think I can improve on the one you see.  And maybe I try using it as a master for a mold.

Edited September 8, 2019 by JayW

[airscale]

'sup Jay

 

I guess you are still hammering out bazillions of cylinder head bits?

 

looking forward to seeing how its going

 

Peter

[JayW]

1 hour ago, airscale said:

'sup Jay

 

I guess you are still hammering out bazillions of cylinder head bits?

 

looking forward to seeing how its going

 

Peter

thought I replied, but I don't see it.  Oh well - uh Peter, have not done much.  I get some time, and it slips away.  But it is nagging at me more and more, so it is just about time.  Especially if I know there are expectant colleagues!  Thanks for checking in.

[JayW]

Not that I have made any spectacular progress - I just want to stay in touch.  Weather is turning cold and windy, and I am going to have more time to model.  So if I confront the tedium of repetitious cylinder part making head on, I can get through this.  I am not going to pursue 3D printing or resin molding here mostly because there are enough down sides to offset the upsides, and I kinda didn't want to anyway.  Call me Styrene Man!

 

 

The rings on the right are merely spacers, each to be put between the cylinder head and the basic body of the cylinder.  The completed cylinder head you see in the center will sit on top of one of them.  The eight parts on the left will sit on top of the intake lobes of the remaining eight cylinder heads.  They have alot more good detail than their counterparts on the P-47 engine.  Alot of carving and sanding....   The six little parts in the lower portion of the picture (looking like little turtle shells) are rocker arm covers and their almost microscopic attachment studs.  I have two more to go at this stage (I'll need 36 total for the entire engine).  I didn't do this at all for the P-47 engine.  They are tough little buggers - I file them out of styrene half round stock that you can see there.

 

So, I am nearly done with the intake side parts.  Next will be the eight exhaust side parts, which are just as many parts.  Then come the eight cylinder head cooling fin buildups.  And then I will have nine of these:

 

 

At that point, depending on my whims, I will either do the nine basic cylinder bodies for the front row, or do the nine cylinder heads for the aft row which are different from those of the front row.  Ultimately I will have eighteen cylinders sitting around.   Then it will be time to get out the lathe and machine the engine block parts.  If you all didn't see that effort on the P-47, you will be in for a treat.

 

This is going to be a much better engine than the P-47's.  It will be a long project but the Corsair deserves a great engine.  Happy Halloween! 

Edited October 31, 2019 by JayW

[airscale]

unreal...

 

I remember this challenge when trying to make a 1/24 P&W 2800 for my F7F - drove me crazy just making ONE cylinder head - I would not be able to cope with the task you have ahead Jay

 

best of british to you and hope to see you back on soon

 

Peter

[JayW]

Three weeks later, and I have to post something to make sure you know I am alive.  Hope I am not boring you.  Work continues at a leisurely pace on the P & W R2800 for my F4U-1A.  I'll just show you how far along I am:

 

First, all rocker arm covers (18 of them) are done.  You have seen some of these already.  Glad they are now done.  Keep in mind I have 18 more to do for the aft row of cylinders: 

 

 

Two are on the now long completed cylinder head shown.  The other 16 await.  What do they await for?  These:

 

 

What you see there are the cylinder head bases in various levels of completion.  The finished ones look like little mohawks.  Hee hee!  They consist of a pair of round cooling fins with little strips on the centerlines.  The strips have little spark plug holes on either end.  Then there are the center cooling fins pointing up.  Most of the cylinder head cooling fins have 90 deg bends as you can see on the competed head.  One such fin is shown alone, next to two more that have not yet been cut from the scribed sheet of .010 plastic.  You can also see the simpler unformed cooling fins (7 of them) laying there waiting to be glued together and then glued to the next circular base fin.  They are also scribed and cut from .010 sheet as shown. 

 

When I finish these bases, I will be laboriously scribing, cutting, and forming all the rest of the cooling fins.  Each cylinder has 19 of the formed fins (really 10 fins and 9 of their formed spacers) with none exactly like the other.  Gonna take some time.  Then the rocker arm covers are attached and they will look alot like the completed one you see.  

 

It's a process - what you see so far with the 8 remaining cylinder heads totals more than 300 individual parts.  Just so far.  But I am game for this.  A little at a time and you will one day see one awesome R-2800.  Please be patient and keep with me.

Edited November 23, 2019 by JayW

[BiggTim]

Holy.....

You are totally insane, sir!

In a good way! 

 

Tim

[TwoHands]

On 9/4/2019 at 11:11 AM, JayW said:

 

Got a kick out of this post.  Yeah that's a problem!  I have a couple of 1/32 scales displayed in the living room above the TV on open shelves in the entertainment center hutch.  They are not intrusive or ugly, and kinda add to the decor of the den.  My wife even likes them (some).  But these monsters?  I don't want to sell or give to a museum - I want to keep them forever.  But even the smallest (the Mustang) is huge compared to the largest 1/32 model.  I had some quarter circle shelves built for two corners of my office, which almost do the trick:

 

 

Even then the wings protrude a bit, and I dread the day when someone (not me) comes in the office and accidentally knocks one off the shelf.   I could re-position the shelves higher I suppose.  But the cockpits are a treat at this scale, and would not be visible.  Then again, if higher the wheel bays would be more visible.  

 

It's the P-38 that is the real problem.   Even with one of the wings removed at the tail boom, it is still larger than either the P-51 or P-47, mostly due to its length and the twin tails.  It currently resides on top of a big shelf unit, not well seen, and gathering dust.  Not good.

 

The Corsair is going to be easier, because it is about the same length as the Mustang, and the wings can be folded.

 

What about making identical size bases like tiles that fit together to make an airfield and securing the model to them and then hanging the bases with a sliding cleat on the wall like pictures? You could take the model down for closer viewing and still have them visible from the top around standing eye level.

[JayW]

18 hours ago, TwoHands said:

What about making identical size bases like tiles that fit together to make an airfield and securing the model to them and then hanging the bases with a sliding cleat on the wall like pictures? You could take the model down for closer viewing and still have them visible from the top around standing eye level.

 

Am having a bit of trouble picturing this.   Thanks TwoHands for your suggestion.  It's the P-38 that is the problem.  Anything I do with it has to account for its shear size.   It's soooo much bigger than the other fighters I have.  I have a low carbon footprint house (read small).  And large items can be a challenge be it furniture or appliances or king size beds.  A 1/32 Lightning is fine - I actually have one residing in a cove in my entertainment hutch in my den.  But 1/18 is another matter altogether!   My wife would put the kabash on any plan to put that big monster in the den.  So it stays in my little office (and modelling station).  

 

And while I am at it, I will post an update.  I am afraid you will not be very impressed. 

 

The cylinder head and upper cylinder assembly line remains active.  Per my last couple of posts, you saw that I was working from the top down on the cylinder heads (as opposed to the first head where I worked from the bottom up).  That was a mistake.  When trying to mate the cylinder head portion to the stack of circular cooling fins, I got a gap due to minor warping of the lower surface of the cylinder head (I guess due to some internal tension from the gluing).  It's not that bad, but because of that I decided to convert to the aft row of cylinders instead the front row.  The imperfections are less visible that way.  Here is evidenced the continued laborious work on cylinder heads and upper cylinders:

 

 

You see above the scribed circles in .01 plastic sheet which will be cooling fins, the smaller ones being spacers between the cooling fins.  I stack them all on that little base you see with a .063 alignment pin sticking up vertically.  

 

Here is my total progress so far:

 

 

Six cylinder heads, five being new (all aft row cylinder heads).  The one in the back is the one you have seen already in previous posts (a forward cylinder head).   The trained eye will see the difference between the forward row head and the aft row heads.   Why?  The valve guides (and hence the prominent protrusions of the cylinder head lobes) for the cylinder heads face forward for the forward row, and aft for the aft row.  But the intake and exhaust ports all face aft.  That is the reason they look quite different.

 

In all, it looks like my average rate for completion of a cylinder head as you see there is just short of a week.  Two a week if all the planets align.  Why?  Spare time obviously - our hobby is done on spare time, not time devoted to life in general.  But also part count.  Each head has something to the tune of 90 parts (including all the little Meng nuts you see).  Also, my poor back and also eyes can only endure so much time stooped over my work bench.  Boredom is a factor as well.  I have to do 18 of these, and sometimes I just don't want to deal with it.  So I have 12 to go, but some work has already been done on the valve cover parts for those 12 - which is hard work.   I estimate all 18 cylinder heads to be done around the end of February.  I am OK with this.  Please be patient.

 

After that, I will probably complete the lower cylinders for the aft row, using 0.005 thick material.  That is also time consuming.  Then I think I am going to dust off the mini-lathe and begin work on the engine block parts - mainly the aft row block and the intake manifold collector.  In total there will be seven lathe turned sections - front section (reduction gearing), the two crankcase halves (the real engine has the crankcase in three parts), the collector section, the supercharger case, the impeller case, and the rear case. 

 

As I stated before, this engine will be complete, since i mean to have removable panels over the engine compartment, in addition to the removable cowl panels.   It is a giant goal, I can tell you.  It remains to be seen if I can actually achieve it.  But Tamiya has done it in 1/32.  So I am going to give it a shot.

 

Later folks.

 

  

Edited January 12, 2020 by JayW

[JayW]

"I estimate all 18 cylinder heads to be done around the end of February.  I am OK with this.  Please be patient."

 

I said that last post about two weeks ago.  This post is to let you know that I am on schedule.  Here are all nine aft row cylinder heads, and (bonus) one fully complete cylinder.  Well almost complete - the air deflectors on either side are still to come.  Soon you will see my attempt at those tricky details.  Here:

 

 

Count them - all nine!  Good god what a huge amount of work.  I know - I did it to myself.  The complete cylinder is #9, which is aft row on the bottom.  Although I am somewhat satisfied with it, there are a couple things I would do differently at its base where the Meng nuts are.  So I relegate it to the bottom where it will hardly be seen. 

 

The front row will be less work.  You will recall I have already completed the rocker arm covers with their little turtle shell caps - alot of work.  And, I have gotten a head start on the cooling fins:

 

 

About one hundred flat patterns etched into the plastic sheet.  More to go.

 

I gave myself to the end of February to complete all 18 cylinder heads.  I will still shoot for that.  But I think I might do a complex lathe turned part first - the aft half of the crankcase, and the intake section right behind it.  I will combine them in one part.  Stay tuned.  

Edited January 30, 2020 by JayW

[airscale]

On 1/29/2020 at 8:24 PM, JayW said:

 

 

 

 

Jay, these are extraordinary...

 

A quite incredible amount of work for which you can rest assured you are making THE most accurate 1/18 cylinders in the world today

 

bravo

 

Peter

[JayW]

Moving right along, I have a part of the engine case in work - a lathe machined acrylic part.   Here is the section I am modeling (between the vertical red lines):

 

 

So the part has nine mounting surfaces for the aft row of cylinders, which comprise the forward portion of the part.  And it also has 18 faces on the aft portion of the part - nine for the intake pipes, and nine for the motor mounts (only six of the nine will be used for motor mounts).  You can see part of a motor mount above, between two of the intake pipes.

 

I made the part out of 1.625 inch diameter round acrylic stock.  Here are a couple of shots showing progress on the mini-lathe:

 

  

 

 

It's messy business with acrylic shavings flying all over the place.

 

The machining was tricky, but do-able.  Here is the finished lathe part:

 

 

Then I converted the machine into an end mill, using a cutter, and faced off the flats for cylinders, motor mounts, and intake pipes:

 

 

 

 

A sneak preview with a completed cylinder, and a Lord motor mount:

 

 

Some of you may remember similar work on the P-47 engine a couple years ago.  This one is going to be better.  Next up is hole drilling on this little jewel - holes for the cylinders (qty 9), holes for the valve guides (qty 18), and holes for the intake pipes (qty 9).  And then it will gather dust as I continue cylinder work.  I'll show y'all the finished part in a few days probably.

 

OK - the next few weeks will be finishing off the front row cylinder heads.  Not alot of fun, but I will be happy to get it behind me.  Don't go away! 

Edited January 25, 2021 by JayW