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When will we get an F-22 or F-23 in 1/32

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So at Trumpeter, Tamiya, ZM, Revell, and Academy HQ's they are not eyeing the prospects of a 1/32 F-22A Raptor or a 1/32 F-35A/B/C Lightning II kit?  Duh, of course they are.  But there's one slight problem.  Lockheed-Martin's licensing requirements:  https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/contact/licensing-information.html  From what I understand LM has to have a say in the final product produced plus they will receive royalty payments for all units produced worldwide.  That's a show stopper for some model kit manufacturers.  I know Trumpeter shelved their plans some years ago because of this.  Don't know about the others.  Sad for us modelers. 

 

Dave Mason

IPMS Philippines

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, DavidJMason said:

So at Trumpeter, Tamiya, ZM, Revell, and Academy HQ's they are not eyeing the prospects of a 1/32 F-22A Raptor or a 1/32 F-35A/B/C Lightning II kit?  Duh, of course they are.  But there's one slight problem.  Lockheed-Martin's licensing requirements:  https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/contact/licensing-information.html  From what I understand LM has to have a say in the final product produced plus they will receive royalty payments for all units produced worldwide.  That's a show stopper for some model kit manufacturers.  I know Trumpeter shelved their plans some years ago because of this.  Don't know about the others.  Sad for us modelers. 

 

Dave Mason

IPMS Philippines

 

Italeri had no issues properly licensing their F-35 and F-104 kits.  If Italeri can do it, I doubt it’s a showstopper for most of the other companies you list, if they decided to do a kit.  Also, Tamiya has verbiage on the boxes for kits like their F-15 and F-16 indicating that they are licensed products, so they already do it.  Likely there are other reasons besides just licensing that makes companies choose not to do a kit. Finally, I think some companies like Trumpeter aren’t interested in obtaining licenses, but that doesn’t stop them from making kits.  On Tamiya’s 1/48 F-14 box, they acknowledge Grumman’s trademark and say it’s used under license.  No such verbiage on the Trumpeter Tomcats.

Edited by Dave Williams

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Posted (edited)

The Raptor's issue has already been brought up.  It is used by only one customer, USAF, and thus has few marking/paint options.

 

There is an option in 1/32...  MotorMax put out a toy F-22 about ten years ago.  It was a Wal-Mart style toy.

Interestingly, it scaled out to 1/32!!!!   I have one and its outer shape is pretty reasonable.  In fact, a couple of them have been built right here on LSP.

They can be found on eBay.  A lot of work though to get it up to a model builder's standards as landing gear and cockpit would have to be scratchbuilt.

For my copy I have bought a resin ejection seat and a resin pilot for an "in flight" build, thus avoiding the landing gear issue.

Eduard actually does sell F-22 resin wheels in all the major scales.  I wonder how many 1/32 they have sold...  LOL

Edited by KUROK
more info

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Posted (edited)
On 4/22/2019 at 2:41 PM, Dave Williams said:

I don’t think the Bf109 is a “whipping boy” because of any political or nationalist reason.  I think it’s mostly a matter of the fact that it’s been kitted to death, while other desired aircraft have only an ancient kit or no kit at all.  For the longest time, the only 1/32 109s were the ancient Revell kit and the old Hasegawa E.  Then came the new tool Hasegawa kits, the new tool Revell kit, the Trumpeter kits, and on top of that Z-M has announced another new 109 kit.  That’s a total of six 1/32 109 kits, with four of them coming out in the last 20 years and are what would be considered modern tooling.  Compare that to the number of 1/32 Val’s or Kate’s or (insert favorite aircraft that no one kitted) made over all that time.  For a lot of people, the issue is “how many more 109s do we need?”  And for those that say none of the existing 109 kits count because they aren’t “perfect”, at least people have an “imperfect” kit to start from as opposed to having no kit at all.

 

I try to stay out of these types of threads, but. Basically every car company makes SUV’s, do we really need another one?  Clearly the market answer is yes we do and every company wants their own piece of the pie.  Why? Because they are what is selling these days, they weren’t 40 years ago, and may not be 40 years from now.  At this moment they are the big sellers.  Notice they all come in same colours too, from brand to brand you can get a silver SUV from almost every manufacturer. Not so with minivans anymore, only a handful still making them, who knows how well they sell.  But I can sure make an educated estimate of the ratio of SUV’s to minivans I see rolling around the streets near me. Let’s see Jaguar, Ferrari, or even Ford’s reply to a request for a minivan in my favourite shade of purple.  I’d also like it in stock at least three local dealerships, and I ‘need’ it for less $20000 with 0% financing.  Modellers seem to think the industry is a collective where we make kits that don’t compete against each other.  If I was starting a modelling company today, I’d choose a F-14, Me-109, P-51, or F-16 as my first release. Otherwise there won’t be a second release.  There is a very good reason why we are not up to our knees in Judy’s, Val’s, and P-36’s, because if anyone did tool one the warehouse people would be buried in unsold kits, and the manufacturer up to their eyeballs in debt. 

Edited by is it windy yet?
Auto ‘edit’ or ‘correct’- isn’t that an oxymoron

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As much as I too would like to see a big f-22 I doubt it will happen any time soon. As others have said, limited numbers, users and scheme's. Plus I would be rather worried if a Chinese company would put out an accurate raptor. Lol. One other area to look is if hasegawa and academy's f-22 sold well. I don't see those around very often and 1/48 is a more popular scale for modern jets.

 

Maybe manufacturers in general are hesitant to put out new kits? I mean almost all new kit gets praised to high heaven by most of the online 'mainstream' reviewers that get them for free so they can keep getting them for free. Then the kits get torn apart and shredded by most modelling forums because of a panel line is a little bigger than it should be . GWH 1/48 su-35 anyone? Which by the way was an overall awesome kit to build. Yes I know there are exceptions to both rules but still.  Plus who has hundreds of thousands of dollars to dump into a kit and probably not worry about the selling numbers as much? I can think of only one....WnW

Trumpeter can crank em out because labor is generally so cheap over there in china. Truth be told that it would be easier to make a good looking and accurate su-25 based off a Trumpy kit than it would carving one out of wood IMO.

 

/Rant:DodgeBall:

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Zacto models had started work on a resin 1/32 YF 23 but it's been on hold since.....2006? or so? Maybe the neigh-sayers are correct and there's no market for it? But at least somebody was working on one.

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On 4/23/2019 at 9:00 PM, chrish said:

Zacto models had started work on a resin 1/32 YF 23 but it's been on hold since.....2006? or so? Maybe the neigh-sayers are correct and there's no market for it? 

 

 

IIRC, I have spoken to Chris on that, and it seems to me it basically died on the vine, for lack of documentation, schemes and possibly even overall interest. 

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5 hours ago, Out2gtcha said:

IIRC, I have spoken to Chris on that, and it seems to me it basically died on the vine, for lack of documentation, schemes and possibly even overall interest. 

 

It's not dead, just shelved after reality set in.
Zactomodels (14 years) has been my full-time job for the last 12 years and aftermarket doesn't pay much. In order to keep food on the table it became necessary to make smaller products with shorter production times. A new release equals a sudden income flow. Those times between releases can be devastating.


Next new product (coming soon): http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/306361-132-aim-120/

 

In order to finish my YF-23 I'd probably need close to a year at the workbench (while maintaining the business, casting parts and filling orders of existing product).
There is definitely still interest in the project (I still get e-mails asking about it) and I have everything I need to finish it. I just need to keep a steady flow of new products and orders going and not get interrupted again (working with crooked model companies that break their promises). When the time comes I'll remove the ever thickening layer of dust on this beauty and finish her off.

 

YF-23002sm_zps89ee07ac.jpg

 

In-progress here: http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/89934-132-yf-23-black-widow-ii/

 

:beer4:

 

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29 minutes ago, Zactoman said:

 

It's not dead, just shelved after reality set in.
Zactomodels (14 years) has been my full-time job for the last 12 years and aftermarket doesn't pay much. In order to keep food on the table it became necessary to make smaller products with shorter production times. A new release equals a sudden income flow. Those times between releases can be devastating.


Next new product (coming soon): http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/306361-132-aim-120/

 

In order to finish my YF-23 I'd probably need close to a year at the workbench (while maintaining the business, casting parts and filling orders of existing product).
There is definitely still interest in the project (I still get e-mails asking about it) and I have everything I need to finish it. I just need to keep a steady flow of new products and orders going and not get interrupted again (working with crooked model companies that break their promises). When the time comes I'll remove the ever thickening layer of dust on this beauty and finish her off.

 

YF-23002sm_zps89ee07ac.jpg

 

In-progress here: http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/89934-132-yf-23-black-widow-ii/

 

:beer4:

 

 

Still an awesome looking piece of kit, even in the unfinished form.

 

Can fully understand needing to pay the bills!

As the precarious nature of the business proved by the tragedy that befell Paul and Susy, it seems tough enough to make it in the business producing smaller meat and potatoes kind of parts in smaller scales, let alone large intricate kits.

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Even though it's a hairdryer with wobbly exhausts I'd love to see an F-22 in 32nd scale, simply for the fact that I've seen the Raptor in flight and it's something I'll never forget. Too bad the demand isn't there. Maybe that'll change some day.

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