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Alain Gadbois

Notre-Dame de Paris engulfed in flames

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My bad then. I thought they owned it. Still think they should pay for it as they use it 99% of the time but those are my personal thoughts on the subject. It just seems to be cool to be seen to be giving to the fund raising.

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17 minutes ago, Out2gtcha said:

Lets not go there please. I wont go into my own beliefs but save it to say , this isnt about religion, its about saving a piece of human history. Not many things existing today have material that was around 8 centuries ago. Its a stunningly beautiful piece of architecture and nearly the 8th wonder of the world with its size, age and beauty. 

 

Any building that old, with that much of a connection to human history deserves to be saved regardless of its original purpose.  

 

I couldn't agree more.

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1 hour ago, AlanG said:

Brian. Please believe me when i say that this was no way intended to have a pop at anyone's belief or non-belief in  religion. And i totally agree it was/is a beautiful building of great importance. I just find the money pledged a bit sickening given the size of the owners bank account(s).

 

I wasnt really defending anyones religion really or lack there of, I am only defending the building as a deep connection to human civilization and history. Not unlike the pyramids, the Eiffel tower, Colliseum, Taj Mahal, the Great Wall, or Stone hedge, the Notre Dame cathedral deserves to be saved regardless of ownership or purpose. The size of the bank account of the owners I'm sure is large, but this is about more than just them, and in this instance I think its perfectly acceptable to take donations for repair, for people outside of their organization no matter how much money they have. I think it can only help to get the building back closer to the way it was prior to the fire.

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On 4/15/2019 at 4:15 PM, Alain Gadbois said:

Ray, I imagine the plan would be to rebuild using the original techniques and materials, even if finding the wood required might be difficult.

 

Alain

 

 

It's easier than you might think. After the restoration of the cathedral was done in the 19th century, they planted a grove of oaks at the Versailles Palace specifically for replacing the wood of the cathedral.  They were ready for any eventuality.

 

 

 

Matt 

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Imagine if the super rich cared as much about the people of Yemen, or Syria, or Flint, Michigan. Yes, Notre Dame is amazing, and historically significant, but compared with millions of human lives? Starving children being bombed? Being poisoned with lead? 

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1 hour ago, Jennings Heilig said:

Imagine if the super rich cared as much about the people of Yemen, or Syria, or Flint, Michigan. Yes, Notre Dame is amazing, and historically significant, but compared with millions of human lives? Starving children being bombed? Being poisoned with lead? 

Well said that man.

 

Incredibly broken moral system we sometimes operate within.

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Terrible, catastrophe. If seeing the inside of this Cathedral was on your bucket list, it will be a while to tick it off.

 

Bypassing the inequality of wealth debate...I seem to remember that the medieval technique for stain glass windows has been lost, but I'm sure they can do nice replicas.

 

Apparently there are no oak trees now as big as they were then. 

 

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Posted (edited)

Yes, steering this back on track away from the "who is going to pay" debate, they will have to decide if they restore using original materials or new construction methods.

Back in the 1980's York Minster Cathedral in the UK (similar age to Notre Dame) was hit by lightning and started a fire in the roof.

The Fire Service at the time deliberately collapsed the burning section which saved the rest of the cathedral.

We also had the Windsor Castle fire which destroyed the great hall.

Both were restored using original methods and materials.

York Minster is still undergoing restoration today of external stonework and it's pleasing to know that the skills of stonemasons, carpenters and stained glass windows  are still very much in good supply in the UK at least.

I'm sure we could find some good English oak if they need any.

 

Edited by PhilB

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Posted (edited)

Being in the architecture field, and HUGE fan of historic preservation, my first thought is to restore it exactly as it was before - period materials, methods, etc. However, in this case, the originality of the lost roof is gone forever, and to re-create it will just be a facsimile, so I would advocate doing something entirely new, using modern materials like steel. It almost seems heretical to hear myself say that, but as the history that is lost can't be regained, why not let it go and do something that will be lighter, faster to erect, and less combustible. The building was already hurting, and the stone structure is going to be in even worse shape now, so doing that would allow it to be strengthened to further preserve it. Plus, I actually think that sometimes the contrast of new and very old is very cool. Just my musings.

 

Tim

Edited by BiggTim

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1 hour ago, BiggTim said:

Being in the architecture field, and HUGE fan of historic preservation, my first thought is to restore it exactly as it was before - period materials, methods, etc. However, in this case, the originality of the lost roof is gone forever, and to re-create it will just be a facsimile, so I would advocate doing something entirely new, using modern materials like steel. It almost seems heretical to hear myself say that, but as the history that is lost can't be regained, why not let it go and do something that will be lighter, faster to erect, and less combustible. The building was already hurting, and the stone structure is going to be in even worse shape now, so doing that would allow it to be strengthened to further preserve it. Plus, I actually think that sometimes the contrast of new and very old is very cool. Just my musings.

 

Tim

 

A most compelling idea Tim. I hadn’t even thought of anything like it. Not to mention wasn't the original sheathed with lead? They could do it with copper now I’d think. 

 

Jimbo

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Posted (edited)

So sad to see this iconic Cathedral engulf in flame when I got back from work that day.

Now, 4 days after, here we are:

- Firemen saved the building thanks to their courage but also thanks to strategy and preparation. It became quickly evident that they would not save the roof and the central tower (la flèche - "the dart") so the next thing was to poor water on the bell towers to protect them from flames and cool them down.. The bells are installed on a wood structure. If this would have catched fire, the 10 bells would have went down and the towers with them. We would have completely lost the cathedral.

- the great organ has not burnt. It suffered from smoke, heat and water but seems if could be restored.

- most of the relics and artwork was also saved.

- big windows (especially the rosaces) have suffered from smoke but are still their.

- President Macron said he wants it rebuilt within 5 years. That's ambitious but as we say impossible is not French.

- Prime minister said they'll launch an international contest of architecture for restauration projects

- around 1billions euros have been raised already This monument was there for 800 years and thankfully will still be there in 800 years from now

- time is at the investigation and more importantly damage assessment and safetying the remains of the building.

- how to rebuilt it will lead to pationate discussions and even polemics as only us French can have, dirty politic will play is part. In the end, UNSECO, the Church, Paris council will have their say in the decisions making and final decision should be made, as far as I understood, by the minister of culture.
 

We have to keep in mind that these old building and especially cathedrals of that magnitude evolved over the time. And each time people used technics current for their time so why not use modern technics in this restauration. The framework supporting the external roof is not visible anyway so I wouldn't mind a metallic structure. 

 

In France, churches belongs to the states, not to the Church and it is under the responsibility of the city council to maintain those on their territory. Unfortunatly, this is often seen as an adjustment variable and very small funding is allowed for the maintenance. As a result most churches are in quite bad shape even in Paris. Even Notre Dame didn't got all the funding it deserved despite the 15 millions visitors each years. I heard that the works that just started (and that are maybe/probably at the origin of this fire) were funded by a fund raising held in the US...

 

Maybe this even will remind us that we have to take care of our past but that's unfortunatly not really in our culture in France compared to other countries. And when I see already all the polemics about the fund raising that's not a given.

Edited by discus

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21 hours ago, Jennings Heilig said:

Imagine if the super rich cared as much about the people of Yemen, or Syria, or Flint, Michigan. Yes, Notre Dame is amazing, and historically significant, but compared with millions of human lives? Starving children being bombed? Being poisoned with lead? 

 

Are you assuming the super rich don't also give to charities supporting the alleviation of those problems?

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