Spitfire on ground: ailerons always in neutral?

[nmayhew]

I am nearing the close on my Spitfire MkIa (Revell).

 

I plan on posing the rudder off centre.

 

With this is in mind, would the ailerons always be in a neutral pose on the ground, or could they be slightly at angle (and I realise they need to be offset, not both up or both down etc)?

 

Have looked through a lot of pics but not seeing much that helps.

 

Many thanks

 

Nick 

[branchline]

Hi Nick,

 

A favourite subject of mine, looking across hundreds of WWll Spitfire images just now for all MKs of the type, the most common pose with a serviceable aircraft on the ground pending flight is neutral ailerons, drooped elevators and rudder, often offset. Particularly with the BoB aircraft ready on the field for action, the tailwheel is also often offset.

 

There are a few images with the ailerons slightly offset and even less with them markedly offset but overall very few and from an personal aesthetic perspective, having offset ailerons never quite looks right but OTY. 

 

 

 Regards

 

Brent H   

         

[nmayhew]

Thanks

 

I went with them level in the end 

[Radub]

Usually, "parked" aircraft are fitted with "gust locks" that secure all moveable parts in place. So, if your model has "gust locks" all should be "straight". Anything goes without gust locks. Actually, as the name implies, a bit of wind can move the control surfaces. Before take-off, when the pilot is taking the pre-flight check walk around the aircraft, he moves by hand all control surfaces in order to check that all links and cables move freely and without snags. You can pose your model as you wish and when questioned just say "pre-flight", drop mike and walk away. :-)

Radu

[Radub]

Before we get lost on side tracks, let me reiterate that it is possible for the control surfaces to be in other positions than "neutral". There is always a "scenario" where that is possible. Yes, the controls can be locked, yes one can wrap the seatbelts around the control stick, whatever, but movable surfaces can be moved. Trying to find a "rule" about the position of various controls by looking at photos is like trying to create a "rule" by looking at photos of houses and concluding that doors never open because they are always shut in photos. Things move.

As for how easy it is to move control surfaces on a Spitfire I can tell you that I was fortunate enough to spend some time in or around Spitfires and the control surfaces can be moved very smoothly and easily by hand. Some of the Spitfires I saw were flyable and had gust locks and a variety of FOD covers for the exhausted and intakes. I can tell you that the Mustang and the Bf 109 have in-built control locks that secure the control column and rudder pedals in the neutral position with a simple "flick" - I handled these locks while seated in these cockpits and I can tell you where they are. The Spitfire does not have such an in-built device. A special bar-shaped device needs to be jammed between the seat backrest and control column in order to lock the Spitfire controls.

Radu

[Palm-tree]

Last time I sat in a spitfire, the contol column was very light to the touch about all axes but was not spring loaded in any way to return to neutral.

A gust of wind  could displace the ailerons if the gust locks were not installed.

 

From the Spitfire Mk V pilot’s notes...

 

“Aeroplane Controls

 

7. (a)

.....Control locking struts are stowed on the right hand side of the cockpit , behind the seat.

 

(b). To lock the control column, the longer strut should be clamped to the control column at one end and the other inserted in a key hole slot in the right hand side of the seat. The fixed pin on the free end of the arm attached to this strut at the control column end should then be inserted in a lug (64) on the starboard datum longeron, thus forming a rigid triangle between the column,the seat and the longeron.

 

(c). To lock the rudder pedals, a short bar with a pin at each end is attached to the other struts by a cable.The longer of the two pins should be inserted in a hole in the starboard star wheel bearing (82) and the shorter in an eyebolt (89) on the fuselage frame directly below the front of the seat. The controls should be locked with the seat in it’s highest position. “

[Palm-tree]

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/07/anatomy-of-spitfire-cockpit.html/04n_15_025

 

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/07/anatomy-of-spitfire-cockpit.html/04n_15_026

 

a couple of pictures of the control column gust locks fitted from the spitfiresite.com

[DonH]

"Last time I sat in a spitfire..."

 

That has to be my favourite phrase of all time on this forum 

 

With Spitfires, you need to take into account that, generally, we are talking RAF. In this case, everything will be lined up, polished and correct.

[Sepp]

Don't forget:  if you're gonna depict the ailerons other than in the neutral position, lean the top part of the control column above the pivot in the appropriate direction (toward the upgoing aileron).

[PhilB]

It depends on how the previous driver left it.

I've just been looking through various books at numerous pictures of parked spits during the war and most seem to have the column forward and centrally placed.

So the pics mostly show elevators lowered, ailerons neutral and rudder neutral.

Of course there are photos of spits where they have been left with rudder applied and elevators level with a touch of aileron too.

So the choice is yours.

 

[Radub]

1 hour ago, DonH said:

"Last time I sat in a spitfire..."

 

That has to be my favourite phrase of all time on this forum 

 

 

 

I was trying to say that I was speaking from first-hand experience and I was not just regurgitating stuff googled five minutes ago. 

Radu

Edited April 11, 2019 by Radub

[nmayhew]

7 hours ago, Palm-tree said:

Last time I sat in a spitfire...

 

[Radub]

2 minutes ago, Jennings Heilig said:

 

That’s because the elevators naturally “droop” by gravity, pulling the stick forward.   

 

The elevators of the Spitfire are masss-balanced with counterweights. The gravity should not affect them. 

HTH 

Radu 

[LSP_Ray]

Can't remember if I read this or what, but I thought they pushed the stick forward after parking to give them a few more inches of room trying to climb out of the cockpit. Spit cockpits are tight!

[DonH]

16 hours ago, Radub said:

 

 

I was trying to say that I was speaking from first-hand experience and I was not just regurgitating stuff googled five minutes ago. 

Radu

 

No offence intended Radu, I am genuinely impressed (and jealous) that you get to sit in a Spitfire.